Technical Slow start when cold

[gregorymay1984]

The glow plugs are there for those rare occasions when its very , very cold - much colder than UK . My 2007 car glow plugs take at least 5 sec to turn red. Tested on a table. Nobody is waiting that long. My point is that yes glow plugs may help but if everything else is working fine (at least on 1.9jtd) they are unnecessary. Lets face it - most people rush all the time and nobody is waiting for their glow plugs to heat up and cars start srtraight away. I used to work as a mechanic and we would reccomend glow plugs for starting problem and it never helped.

 

[bugsymike]

The glow plugs are there for those rare occasions when its very , very cold - much colder than UK . My 2007 car glow plugs take at least 5 sec to turn red. Tested on a table. Nobody is waiting that long. My point is that yes glow plugs may help but if everything else is working fine (at least on 1.9jtd) they are unnecessary. Lets face it - most people rush all the time and nobody is waiting for their glow plugs to heat up and cars start srtraight away. I used to work as a mechanic and we would reccomend glow plugs for starting problem and it never helped.

I suppose it depends what other underlying problems there are.
One of my daughters had a 1.3 multijet 06 Grande Punto 100k+ miles and apart from the summer, if you leapt in and turned the key from cold it wouldn't start without a lot of cranking , but the few seconds on the heater plugs and it would start every time.
However the 2.8 Iveco / Fiat Daily engine I rebuilt never needed heater plugs even in the winter and was in a boat sat in cold sea water all the time. I didn't even connect wiring to them.

 

[queeg]

My 55 plate 1.9jtd is doing the same. If you don't wait at least a count of 10 it is a really hard start in this weather. Frozen pretty solid this morning so counted to 20 and it started OK. I do know that I only have 3 working glowplugs as the 4th will not come out. Used a clamp meter and get a bit over 50A initially dropping to a bit over 20A for a minute or so as the engine warms up. My 2000 diesel BMW with 220k on the clock starts pretty much on the button, no waiting. And as it idles you can hear it turning the glowplugs on and off as the idle gets lumpy and the interior light gets a bit brighter and then the ECU decides it needs them for a bit longer.

What I have observed is when the doblo is cranking and not starting there is no white smoke from the exhaust at all. I have some old bits of farm machinery which have no glowplugs at all and they belch white smoke when cranking in this weather. Even the bimmer will give a brief cough of white diesel smoke as it starts when very cold.

So I'm thinking could this be some issue with building fuel pressure in the cold? The pump in the tank getting a bit weak? Is there a booster pump between the tank and the HP pump?

 

[gregorymay1984]

I replaced the starter motor today and it seems to make a difference. I also replaced 2 blown glowplugs. Will see how it goes. I almost stripped the thread in the cylinder head... Scary as fcuk! Hate doing glow plugs. Too much risk.

 

[gregorymay1984]

My 55 plate 1.9jtd is doing the same. If you don't wait at least a count of 10 it is a really hard start in this weather. Frozen pretty solid this morning so counted to 20 and it started OK. I do know that I only have 3 working glowplugs as the 4th will not come out. Used a clamp meter and get a bit over 50A initially dropping to a bit over 20A for a minute or so as the engine warms up. My 2000 diesel BMW with 220k on the clock starts pretty much on the button, no waiting. And as it idles you can hear it turning the glowplugs on and off as the idle gets lumpy and the interior light gets a bit brighter and then the ECU decides it needs them for a bit longer.

What I have observed is when the doblo is cranking and not starting there is no white smoke from the exhaust at all. I have some old bits of farm machinery which have no glowplugs at all and they belch white smoke when cranking in this weather. Even the bimmer will give a brief cough of white diesel smoke as it starts when very cold.

So I'm thinking could this be some issue with building fuel pressure in the cold? The pump in the tank getting a bit weak? Is there a booster pump between the tank and the HP pump?

Mine is a bit different. I only have to wait for the fuel gauge needle to go all the way up and than crank. 3-4 turns and it starts. If I wait 10+ seconds it will struggle more...

 

[bugsymike]

Glad the starter and heater plugs made a difference, did you get the clamp on ammeter to test/compare against both yours and your wife's cars?
The difference in amps used to crank the good and suspect starter motors would be useful to others with similar problems on the Forum
Regarding using the heater plug for longer than 10 + seconds etc. if you use your clamp on ammeter again, you can see how much of a drain on the battery over a longer time the heater plugs are!

 

[gregorymay1984]

Amp clamp doesn't work unfortunately.

 

[bugsymike]

Amp clamp doesn't work unfortunately.

Pity, was that the one you were getting from Toolzone?

 

[gregorymay1984]

Yes. The one from toolzone. It looks like it is AC amp clamp only but it has AC/DC voltmeter. It is sold as AC/DC amp clamp...
Anyways... the voltmeter isn't accurate too...
Yesterday I took the old starter motor apart and brushes are very short. Probably that was the problem. Now it starts fine - with or without glow plugs. Thank you for your help.

 

[bugsymike]

Main thing is you are up and running .
This is the clamp on Ammeter , I use , it does most things and was only a cheap one from China.

 

[p830335]

Just a suggestion when getting long cranking times and lots of white smoke from cold, check the engine earth strap. There are seperate ones for body and engine on these motors, so all the stuff like lights, dashboard warnings will work fine, but the starter and glow plugs aren't getting the full current if the engine lead is corroded at the bottom.