Serious brake problem

[Oli Moor]

Can anyone help? We have a Bravo 1.4 which on several occasions has had a problem with brakes. On a couple of occasions the brakes have not responded properly (i.e. they have needed an extremely hard push, almost as if the power assistance had disappeared). Most recently the pedal went right to the floor and the car had to be stopped using the handbrake, which at 50mph approaching a busy junction isn't much fun. Unsurprisingly, two mechanics haven't been able to find anything wrong. Can anyone advise?

 

[Tom]

Bleed the fluid. Sounds like you have water in it.

When it cools it all goes back to normal and the monkeys won't be able to find anything wrong.

 

[Si]

Re: Re: Serious brake problem

I have quite a similar problem, though not as severe as having to stop the car using the handbrake!
After an accident in november, it took til feb for me to get the car back. It's been strange since, you really have to hit the middle pedal hard to get the car to stop and even then they seem weak.
Jonothan drove my car at the weekend and was horified with them.
I complained to the garage about them and got them to investigate and change the brake fluid (back in feb) but theres been no improvement since and they say theres nothing wrong.
It's a 1997 HGT with RED-Dot 20groove discs and fast road pads. (I know this isn't the best set-up as i've reduced the surface area of the disc, but they used to be a lot better before the accident.)
Theres plently of life left in the pads and the discs are fine.
Any ideas?

 

[Tom]

Re: Re: Re: Serious brake problem

Generally if the pedal is soft and spongy its fluid, if the pedal is rock hard its the servo.

Could be your servo has been damaged.

 

[Ph1l]

Brakes

Likely air or water in the system, or possibly a seal in a caliper or master cylinder has perished.

 

[Tom]

Re: Brakes

Only if the pedal feels spongy.

If the pedal feel is ok it could always be a crushed solid pipe somewhere.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Re: Brakes

yeah si pressing on your brake pedal felt like stepping on a block of wood. It hardly moved! The brakes on my lowly 115hlx are amazing, you need only rest your foot on the pedal and you screech to a halt. Just recently however there has been a bit more play in my brake pedal, think i might have a few bubbles in the fluid so the first few mm of pedal do nothing but compress those bubbles. Would they have changed the fluid at the 36k service? I dont think they did as ai cant remember being billed for any brake fluid.

Jonathan

 

[Tom]

Re: Re: Re: Brakes

They won't change it unless you ask.. I've just had a 72k service and they have not touched it but they have managed to spill brake and power steering fluid everywhere.

If the pedal is hard then the servo is ****ed. EXPENSIVE!!!!!!

 

[Si]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Brakes

Yeah the pedals rock hard!
You say expensive in capital letters?
Can you tell me any more?
Anyway I can test it?

 

[Tom]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Brakes

They are usually sealed units, not expected to go wrong. You can get rebuild kits for the good old 70's lockheed servos but I don't think Fiats use them.

I'd go to a brake specialist. There are a number of things that could be wrong. Stuck valves, torn diaphram, you name it.

How bad was the accident and which bit of the car got nailed?

 

[Si]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Brakes

It was quite bad, impact on front left corner of car (if your sat in it), had new passenger side wing, new inner wing, headlight, front bumper, bonnet.
Call me stupid, but where do I find a brake specialist? Yellow pages?

 

[Tom]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Brakes

I think its a case of ring around. The other option is try and find a scrapper and get the servo off that. Should all be in the haynes manual.

Sorry can't be more helpful.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Brakes

We had a similar problem on a 405 we used to have. It turned out to be that the front brake hoses had perished inside and a flap of rubber was acting as a 1-way valve,preventing fluid from getting to the calipers and making the pedal hard.


Pete

 

[Tom]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Brakes

I'd be sceptical about that. Having 1 blocked flexy pipe would not affect all the brakes. You'd most likely get pulling to one side like that.

It would be more likely that you had a duff servo hose. Its the servo itself that makes the pedal slightly spongy, even if your brake lines were blocked you'd still not get a rock hard pedal.

Non servo'd cars always have rock hard brake pedals which I like. The pedal on my mini goes down about 1/2" and then stops. Press hard enough and the back lifts off the ground!

I do have a total distrust of garages, they do bullshit ALOT...

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Brakes

Tom
I know it sounds improbable, but in my case both pipes failed and because the fluid could not get to the calipers, it had the same effect as nipped metal pipes, ie a rock hard pedal. We had been down all the suggested routes, even fitting a new servo as that was the most obvious culprit. When we took the rubber hoses off, they would only pass air one way.

It was just a thought, from past experience........

Pete

 

[Tom]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Brakes

OK, that really is the 1 in 1000000 failure.

What do you expect from a froggy car though!

A friend has an MGB with a servo, he always complained the brakes were crap until I pointed out the vacumn hose was persished and had a dirty great hole in it. The car ran better as well when that was fixed.

 

[Pete]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Brakes

I`d thought of that, but a modern engine probably wouldn`t run with that much air leaking into the manifold....

Pete

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Brakes

Let`s face it, the old B series would probably run on a 20:1 ratio!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tom]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Brakes

True, it did expain why I had to wind the carb idle screws right down!