General Screen washer leak inside car

[Oldbish]

I Hope this helps guys
Wife was complaining about screenwash constantly emptying. Leak somewhere ?
2020 Fiat500x
* Tell tale sign "wet footwell in rear behind front passenger side and mildew sitting ontop of carpet"
* Rear washer supply pipe runs with wiring loom under carpet along internal sill
* Remove plastic trim along floor sill besides the passenger seat. Trim will pop off on plugs, however to completly remove there is a 10mm plastic nut alongside rear seat.
* This now reveals wiring loom with black corrugated water pipe about 8mm in diameter.
* Flick of washer switch will reveal split in the pipe.
* Cut the pipe and "Bridge with rubber washer pipe and 2x straight through connectors
* Repair kit on amazon for £9
* I vacumed water out of footwell and lifted carpet and stuffed towel under to absorb as much as possible
* Wd40 wiring to displace water

In my opinion the water pipe is run far too tight and is also brittle
Windscreen washer pump is located behind wheelarch lining passenger front side. Turning wheel full lock to left will give access. You will see access hatch to it in linner. 2 x plastic grommets to remove.
Disclaimer
I am not a mechanic or suitable trained. And this was my experiance only. I have shared it to contribute to ethos of forum.

 

[tigershoot]

Thanks for your excellent post and welcome to the forum. It's super helpful that you posted a photo with clear instructions. I have the same colour. Is yours a Cross Plus?

 

[850kd]

I Hope this helps guys
Wife was complaining about screenwash constantly emptying. Leak somewhere ?
2020 Fiat500x
* Tell tale sign "wet footwell in rear behind front passenger side and mildew sitting ontop of carpet"
* Rear washer supply pipe runs with wiring loom under carpet along internal sill
* Remove plastic trim along floor sill besides the passenger seat. Trim will pop off on plugs, however to completly remove there is a 10mm plastic nut alongside rear seat.
* This now reveals wiring loom with black corrugated water pipe about 8mm in diameter.
* Flick of washer switch will reveal split in the pipe.
* Cut the pipe and "Bridge with rubber washer pipe and 2x straight through connectors
* Repair kit on amazon for £9
* I vacumed water out of footwell and lifted carpet and stuffed towel under to absorb as much as possible
* Wd40 wiring to displace water

In my opinion the water pipe is run far too tight and is also brittle
Windscreen washer pump is located behind wheelarch lining passenger front side. Turning wheel full lock to left will give access. You will see access hatch to it in linner. 2 x plastic grommets to remove.
Disclaimer
I am not a mechanic or suitable trained. And this was my experiance only. I have shared it to contribute to ethos of forum.

I Hope this helps guys
Wife was complaining about screenwash constantly emptying. Leak somewhere ?
2020 Fiat500x
* Tell tale sign "wet footwell in rear behind front passenger side and mildew sitting ontop of carpet"
* Rear washer supply pipe runs with wiring loom under carpet along internal sill
* Remove plastic trim along floor sill besides the passenger seat. Trim will pop off on plugs, however to completly remove there is a 10mm plastic nut alongside rear seat.
* This now reveals wiring loom with black corrugated water pipe about 8mm in diameter.
* Flick of washer switch will reveal split in the pipe.
* Cut the pipe and "Bridge with rubber washer pipe and 2x straight through connectors
* Repair kit on amazon for £9
* I vacumed water out of footwell and lifted carpet and stuffed towel under to absorb as much as possible
* Wd40 wiring to displace water

In my opinion the water pipe is run far too tight and is also brittle
Windscreen washer pump is located behind wheelarch lining passenger front side. Turning wheel full lock to left will give access. You will see access hatch to it in linner. 2 x plastic grommets to remove.
Disclaimer
I am not a mechanic or suitable trained. And this was my experiance only. I have shared it to contribute to ethos of forum.

Thanks for posting this. Your post sent me to check on my rear footwell -it was soaked. Ive been losing screen wash for a few days
Tomorrows job now planned......

 

[850kd]

Thanks for posting this. Your post sent me to check on my rear footwell -it was soaked. Ive been losing screen wash for a few days
Tomorrow’s job now planned......

Advice please! I have not been able to find the ‘10mm plastic nut by the rear seat’. I have located the leak but cannot fully remove the trim to replace the split bit of pipe. 3 hours so far - what have I missed?

 

[tigershoot]

OK. So today I discovered that my rear passenger footwell is sopping wet. I had mould growing on my seats! I suspect this was faulty from the day I bought the car from a FIAT main dealer. I took it back complaining that it was the dampest car I have ever owned and they could not find a leak, but I put that down to them not knowing that a common fault is the pipeline to the back failing and squirting water into the footwell.
In reply to 850kd, this video shows the 10mm plastic nut. FWIW, I still have not succeeded in removing the nut. It got too dark and cold and I had to give up. It is extremely hard to get to. You have to pull up the rear trim that runs up the side of the rear seat. Bend it to the point you think it might snap - I heated it with a hairdryer. You need a small hand to get the socket on as they space is very limited.
Shown in the video is my 10mm socket and connector mounted on the nut. This will show you where it is located.

 

[850kd]

I ended up cutting the trim to reach the leak . Visible by the stain on the pipe and a slow bubbling of screen wash fluid.
There seems to be joint in the pipe which bursts.
Now sealed in situ using silicone. Left to set before testing.

 

[tigershoot]

I have removed the entire panel that acts as the door cill for both the front and the back (it's one piece) as I worked out how to get the 10mm plastic nut off.
Fortunately my neighbour is a mechanic and he said to take out the back seat - the lower part, i.e. that bit you sit on.
I was terrified of doing this, but it's easy.
1. Look in the boot and you will see the two bolts that hold it in. They are Torx 35 I think. Remove both.
2. Put your fingers under the front of the seat front and you will feel where the retainer is. Pull sharply upwards, and the same for the other side.
3. Pull the seat carefully out
4. Remove the Torx bolt holding the seatbelt in. Put the bolt and its associated washers etc in a bag so stop it scratching the back of the seat and tie it out of the way
5. Carefully life the plastic trim that goes up from the cill towards the top of the seatbelt area. Lift it and push it away from the cill
6. This will now give you access to the 10mm plastic nut. It's not even tight.
7. Once it's out you can remove the whole plastic cill and see both the front and the back door cill area.
Hope this helps

It's possible that I may have succeeded without the above if I could have got my hand into the gap shown in my video and hand-turned the nut off by holding the 10mm socket and its adapter that you can see in the video. I didn't realise how loosely the plastic nut is held on until I took it off. Try that first of course. If it fails, it's easy to do my process shown above.

 

[tigershoot]

Seeing as it finally stopped raining I managed to investigate where the black pipe is leaking on my 500x. Looking at the photos from the other two posters in this thread I suspected that my damaged pipe is not in the same place as theirs. As you can see from their posts, the damage was in the area of the passenger door cill and was easily seen.

On mine I discovered a far worse scenario. Mine is split and gushes right near the front of the front passenger's seat. It's far worse, in that the pipe is split BELOW the carpet level.

I had assumed that the water pipe must follow the cill from the front to the back of the car. It does not. It runs under the carpet - maybe at the edge of the carpet and then travels upwards to a junction point on the cill where the harness meets another wiring harness coming from the front along the cill.

This pipe fragility issue has the potential for major issues as these cars age. The pipe is buried in a wiring harness and is not easily accessible. It can split anywhere at any time and flood the floor area. It could even split somewhere up under the dashboard as the pipe comes from the front.

As it stands, I now need to take the front passenger seat out and remove the carpet to access where the pipe is leaking. Assuming I fix the pipe there, it could split somewhere else! Fiat should be ashamed of themselves on this one.

So far, to find one damaged piece of pipe I have needed to or will need to.

1. Remove the plastic trim from the door pillar
2. Remove the base of the rear seat
3. Partly remove the rear passenger plastic wheel arch trim
4. Remove the door cill trim
5. Remove the front cill trim
6. Remove the passenger seat
7. Remove the the liner under the glovebox
8. Remove or pull away the front passenger carpet

This is absolutely ridiculous amount of work for a problem that should never have existed in the first place. Whoever specced that plastic pipe should be fired.

 

[s130]

I agree with you general criticism of the *rap front to back water feed.

The simple 50% solution in the interim is to block the rear feed at the front of the car and even "T" it into the front screen wash.

I think I posted else where that there is also a problem with the front windscreen feed. In my case over time the power/amount of water to the front jets reduced. I went through all the usual unblocking of jets etc. to no avail. I eventually found the problem was dues to the tie wrap hose retaining clips for the hose that goes from the pump to the jets passing over the inner front wing had over time compressed / restricted / strangulated the hose.

Simple fix but a time consuming investigation required.

Needless to say I reported this technical issue to Fiat Technical.

I think there is a real problem, cross manufacturer, these days in that:

1) They want almost yearly from models to entice the public
2) They take a previous base and apply cost reductions on anything they can

So a simple expensive silicon / rubber hose for window washing is replaced with a plastic hose that is age and temperature intolerant. As long as it survives the warranty period then they really don't care.

There is another problem looming ...... doom and gloom

Have you ever taken an older Fiat to a Fiat dealer for work. They are generally not interested, have no knowledge, say they can't get parts (because Fiat no longer supply but independent car motor factors can), etc. This is happening more and more. Meanwhile with the likes of the Security Gateway fitted to post 2016/2018 models many independent garages can't afford the ludicrous Fiat access fees. Meanwhile a 2016 Fiat is nearing end of 10 years of manufacturer support and dealers are no longer interest. You are potentially left with a useless brick on your drive!!!!

Worse still you were previously able to buy a reasonable low entry vehicle for say £8,000 to £10,000. Say 10 years at £10,000 is £1000 per year. Scrap all of that as we are now at £20,000 to £35,000 with all this electric / hybrid drive.

I would be staggered to think that in 10 years you will be able to get, let alone afford a replacement battery for your EV. Every year the battery technology is improving and CHANGING! Battery manufacturers will just want to move production on and stop or limit older battery lines, and those that do survive will be very expensive.

Our Strada Abarth 130TC cost around £8000 in 1989 (I have the exact figure on file but let's assume £9000). It is now 35/36 years old. That is £250 per annum, still running, still full of enjoyment, etc. Similar figures for our 2005 Barchetta.

There is a parallel example

In the old days you "had a job for life" (a car for life). These days you are lucky to be able to have or hold on to a job let alone afford a car or have either for life!

 

[850kd]

Re the tubing: Yes its poor quality but has been on a number of models over recent years, Oh for the fabled CAVIS tubing of the old days

 

[tigershoot]

I have finally got the car dry, one month after it got soaked when I realised the water was blasting out of a hole in the pipe into the front footwell. The pipe is now clad in multiple layers of self-amalgamating tape. I will leave it for a couple of more days to make 100% sure it's not leaking before putting the seats back in and the trim. I have videoed much of what I did so I will stick a video on Youtube in case it helps anyone.

 

[tigershoot]

Here is my video that may help others who end up in this ridiculous situation.

 

[puntodad19]

If you know this pipe is crap, why tape it up rather than renewing it with suitable alternative ?

Windscreen washer pipe is still available, even an alternative plastic pipe. It's not very expensive....

Yes a real pita to completely replace, but do are rotted out sills and floor, not to mention carpets etc....

Thanks for the heads up on this fault which explains one reasons for all the misted up 500's I see round and about. There are 3 I see in the next village often.

 

[850kd]

Here is my video that may help others who end up in this ridiculous situation.

 

[850kd]

Well done for keeping calm during this exercise. My leak was the back one ) as shown in your video)and my annoyance was audible to my neighbours . I have tried to repair using a wider tube overlay and filled with best quality silicone. This was only partly successful so I have now bought some replacement tube and connectors. Time for another go ..,,,,, in the meantime thanks for your excellent video.

 

[tigershoot]

If you know this pipe is crap, why tape it up rather than renewing it with suitable alternative ?

Windscreen washer pipe is still available, even an alternative plastic pipe. It's not very expensive....

Yes a real pita to completely replace, but do are rotted out sills and floor, not to mention carpets etc....

Thanks for the heads up on this fault which explains one reasons for all the misted up 500's I see round and about. There are 3 I see in the next village often.

If you want you can come around and show me how to get the new pipe in. If you can show me how to get the pipe from the washer bottle through the bulkhead, through the dash that would be great. Also you could help remove the entire rear seat, get the rear seatbelt area trim out and help with feeding the new pipe into the spoiler.
If the pipe weren't bound tightly into the wiring harness I could have pulled new pipe through.

 

[tigershoot]

Well done for keeping calm during this exercise. My leak was the back one ) as shown in your video)and my annoyance was audible to my neighbours . I have tried to repair using a wider tube overlay and filled with best quality silicone. This was only partly successful so I have now bought some replacement tube and connectors. Time for another go ..,,,,, in the meantime thanks for your excellent video.

The original poster on this thread cut the pipe in the affected area and then used larger pipe with and inside diameter the same as the outside diameter of the original pipe.
It took me a month to get the car dry, which was not helped by shocking weather.

 

[tigershoot]

Well done for keeping calm during this exercise. My leak was the back one ) as shown in your video)and my annoyance was audible to my neighbours . I have tried to repair using a wider tube overlay and filled with best quality silicone. This was only partly successful so I have now bought some replacement tube and connectors. Time for another go ..,,,,, in the meantime thanks for your excellent video.

I did get replacement tube and connectors but I was worried that the existing pipe would not be flexible if I cut into it as it seems hard and brittle. I didn't want to cut the pipe and then find that the connectors, when pushed in, stretched the plastic pipe causing it to fracture. Maybe it wouldn't. If I knew for certain that it would be OK, then 100% I would have done it that way.

 

[puntodad19]

Could the old pipe be left in situe, redundant. Could the new pipe be suitably routed along side the loom ?

Could an alternative resevoir, pump and wring be fitted...In the back closer to the window. Wires don't leak water.

I understand the washer pump rotation may be reversed for the rear washers ?

You know of the very bendy DIY curtain wire, a bit like a pedal bike gear or brake cable....Which makes routing wiring and tubing so much easier...

Some Italian worker in the factory, female probably, fitted the loom. Yes, the car was only partly assembled at the time, but it was fitted.

Where there is willing, there is doing, usually....if this problem is happening with a 500, it could well be happening with other models, and makes, in the group....

Luckily the lads Punto is dry inside, apart from a very slight dribble from the near side rear light unit. We suspect it has been leaking there since new due to the deep impression of the wiring sleeving in the rectangular foam gasket.

New gaskets have been made ready for fitting next time I have the car for a day. A tube of silicon sealer is also waiting to make "de flection vees" to encourage water to drain away rather than collect at the top of the foam gasket.

A stitch in time etc..

 

[s130]

If the front to rear piping is so fragile I would go with fully relacing or, heaven fobid, just scrap the rear washer. Old school we never had rear wash/wipe and never complained

The video OP mentioned an important observation. Modern cars are built to fast Lego assembly kits. Dismantling and rebuilding is a major task.

I just built a large Lego Techno Buggati and thousands of pieces later found that the front axle assembly was one notch too far back. Not a simple fix, some 30%+ decomposition to rectify the problem. And just like modern cars when you disrupt plasitc fixings they are never the same again even if you did'nt break them!