Technical Rustic 650 engine and gearbox

[BambinoClassic]

We have pretty slim pickings here in aus when it comes to the 650 upgrade. The Nikis that are around are usually still good runners, going for around $5000, and it would be cruel to dissect and discard.


A kind chap has been hiding one in his garage but as you can see it's not a beautiful specimen.



According to him, the engine is bare
- no cowl's or fan, no alternator

- it does have flywheel, fuel pump, starter, clutch, pressure plate


I was looking for experienced souls to give some thoughts on if on the surface of it this is an expensive reconditioning job + replacement parts job


Hard to tell I know given we don't know what lies beneath, or what's inside the gearbox...


But it is tempting... to get it and store until the day I can try to learn engines proper like :yum:

 

[fiat500]

I think I see two flywheels so it might be worth double-checking what is there. My instinct is always to buy if it seems cheap enough, but I'm stupid. I doubt you will regret it unless the crankcase is damaged.
I bought this complete engine and gearbox two years ago and although the basic internals, crankcase and pistons etc. didn't need replacing, I spent more money on parts than it cost in the first place....never regretted it though.

Look what it was like when I bought it:

https://www.fiatforum.com/500-classic/422579-murphios-meanderings-21.html?p=4170070

 

[MOD500]

If you have room to keep it and it's not too expensive I would take a punt.
I've bought worse!

 

[Toshi 975]

Assuming the engine has not been too abused and not suffered any major failure it should be worth a shot. If you have the time and space it could be a great opportunity to work your way through the Haynes workshop manual and who knows you may get away with a gasket set and seals on the main unit, possiblbly new piston rings if it needs them. You can get service kits for the carb, fuel pump and starter motor if required. It is a great feeling when you build up a complete engine from a bare crankcase then fire it up. I would be very surprised if there were not a few more bits at the back of someone's barn or shed somewhere in Oz.

 

[BambinoClassic]

Yeh my thoughts were as above. Irrational and enthusiastic!
Garage negotiations are ongoing, and if I can find the space I would love to get into the nitty gritty of this engine. My skills aren't there and so learning on a relatively inexpensive one would be fun.

Look what it was like when I bought it:

https://www.fiatforum.com/500-classic/422579-murphios-meanderings-21.html?p=4170070

Ooh that's a good comparison! Gives me hope...
It does look like 2 x flywheels in that photo, this is the problem with buying long distance.

I don't think the seller is in a huge rush so hopefully there's time. And one day.......

 

[BambinoClassic]

I spent more money on parts than it cost in the first place....

Egads
Looking at what needs replacing I would probably be in the same boat.
Those air flow cowlings are expensive!

 

[Toshi 975]

A couple of things come to mind. I believe that there are a number of Fiat 126 owners in Sydney and at least one who has gone for a bike engine conversion so there may be some spares closer to home. I have seen their posts on the club126uk forum so may be worth searching there.
Is your car running an alternator or dynamo as there is no reason why you could not go with the dynamo and use 500 tinware which I believe would only require very minor mods then the fan is the same across the range.

 

[BambinoClassic]

Something to explore!
Technically “my car” is a figment of my dreams at this stage…
Awaiting a decent workspace for now.
It could be that I end up with the engine before I even have the car to put it in!

 

[BambinoClassic]

a little wary now as it turns out they were pulled out of a running Niki in 1996 and haven’t been touched since!

That could either be seen as beautifully preserved or ...

 

[IanEmery]

a little wary now as it turns out they were pulled out of a running Niki in 1996 and haven’t been touched since!



That could either be seen as beautifully preserved or ...

Come on, what can be the problem! It’s only 22 years so it’s not like it’s a long time!!

Where’s you sense of adventure ......

 

[Toshi 975]

Earlier this year I decided I needed some room in my garage so I made 3 of my spare engines available.
The first 650 one I bought as a standby some years ago as I was told it had only run for 7,000 miles from new. I had no idea how long the engine had been out of a car, could have been 30 years and it was starting to look a little rough which made me nervous when a buyer came forward. So I rigged it up on the bench top and ran it. It was the sweetest smoothest engine ever
The second 650 came from a scrap 126 that I drove over 60 miles back home with no problems. The car had covered a bit over 50,000 miles at the time then the engine lived under my bench uncovered for over 20 years and was covered in muck. The guy who bought the engine has totally stripped it for a rebuild and told me apart from a clean it just needs new gaskets, seals and a set of piston rings.
Next to that engine was a 594 lump that had lived under a bush in my garden for a year or two before it also spent over 20 years under the bench getting covered. The buyer has reported back to me a few times and is over the moon about the condition inside the engine and the rebuild fairly easy.
The 795cc engine that I have just rebuilt was part stripped in 1985 then abandoned until this year
Who dares wins some say.

 

[BambinoClassic]

Thanks for that feedback toshi, very interesting and useful!
As a complete 100% novice (never even rebuilt a carb), rebuilding an engine would be a little scary but the fun is in achieving something difficult and reviving something from the dead.

I just realised that the Niki was exported to Aus only 1989-1992
Meaning the engine was only run for an absolute max of 7 years

Could be like your 7000 mile one!