Now that's the sort of useful evidence we need - nice one deeyup! I also agree that modern tanks and modern fuel will keep things pretty clean in there for a long time.
General Road trip in new Panda
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General Road trip in new Panda
Now that's the sort of useful evidence we need - nice one deeyup! I also agree that modern tanks and modern fuel will keep things pretty clean in there for a long time.
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Have a look at the fuel filter!
I can't, it's inside the tank I believe. There is no inline one.
I still don't believe it will be full of sludge.
I have no way of knowing whether any particular tank or filter contains sludge. I do know that:
(a) if anything denser than fuel (grit, dust, water, etc) gets in, it will tend to accumulate at the bottom of the tank because of gravity;
(b) any mixture of grit/dust/water will have sludge at the bottom;
(c) any sludge pumped along the fuel line will either cause some restriction of flow through the filter, or else pass straight through into the engine.
All this applies to the filling station as well as to the car. Who can be certain that no grit, dust or water has ever entered any of the storage tanks at any of the places they where they fill up?
(a) if anything denser than fuel (grit, dust, water, etc) gets in, it will tend to accumulate at the bottom of the tank because of gravity;
(b) any mixture of grit/dust/water will have sludge at the bottom;
(c) any sludge pumped along the fuel line will either cause some restriction of flow through the filter, or else pass straight through into the engine.
All this applies to the filling station as well as to the car. Who can be certain that no grit, dust or water has ever entered any of the storage tanks at any of the places they where they fill up?
Totally agree with all of that.
Also the tanker bringing the fuel from the refinery.
Tesco a few years ago had water in some fuel which caused problems with plenty of cars.
I do think though that chances of contamination is still pretty low.
If someone drops the nozzle on the forecourt, that may be a source, but the chances of getting it from other sources is pretty low imo.
I suppose fiat don't think it's an issue either by not fitting a serviceable filter.
I have never damaged an engine because of sludge in the fuel, and the chances of it happening are probably quite low, but I try to avoid running the tank dry, just in case.
My house has never burnt down, and the chances of it happening are probably quite low, but I have fire insurance, just in case.
I think I must be one of those sad creatures that are called pessimists.
My house has never burnt down, and the chances of it happening are probably quite low, but I have fire insurance, just in case.
I think I must be one of those sad creatures that are called pessimists.
I can only go off experience.
I worked for 5 years up until recently driving power boats. We used to have to refill them every day, sometimes twice. Up to 1300litres of petrol a day.
When we moved marina to one that only had diesel we had to buy petrol from Tesco. We used 25l tubs to carry fuel.
We would then use siphon tubes to get the fuel into the boats.
I've never seen any contamination in the bottom of the tubs in the whole time.
The only time I've ever had problems was when we bought some bladder tanks for the small boats.
http://www.orca.eu/uk/forces.php?id_page=57
The increased ethanol in petrol nowadays stripped the lining of the tank which is put there for manufacturing. It created a snot like substance. This quickly blocked both the tank filter and the inline outboard motor filter.
One boat needed new fuel lines.
I notice the manufacturer Of those tanks list them as diesel only now.
So yes, there is a risk, as those people filling with Tesco and morrisons petrol unfortunately found out. If you don't remember here's a link.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motoring/dirty-fuel-blights-thousands
I've always been a bit of a risk taker, I run my electric car to nigh on empty all the time. And I fill my fiat up as little as possible, as I find it a chore.
Yesterday I used the fiat for work. When I started in the morning, the warning of low fuel sounded, the gauge showed 1/4.
10 miles later it showed 1/8, and the petrol light came on. Can't remember exactly when it dropped to the last 1/16 , maybe 10 miles after that?
I've done nearly another 30 miles since.
So total of 60 miles since the sound happened and the dash said "low fuel"
That last 1/16 is still lit.
As I've said earlier, I have driven 18 miles on zero till I ran out.
So potentially 80 miles range after the 1st warning?
Btw, the range showed 30 miles when I started yesterday. My wife had used the car the day before in city rush hour.
I don't intend on running out again, I would limit my zero fuel range to 14 miles, but as Tesco have dropped the price for the weekend to less than £1 I'll fill to the brim at some point over the next 2 days.
I worked for 5 years up until recently driving power boats. We used to have to refill them every day, sometimes twice. Up to 1300litres of petrol a day.
When we moved marina to one that only had diesel we had to buy petrol from Tesco. We used 25l tubs to carry fuel.
We would then use siphon tubes to get the fuel into the boats.
I've never seen any contamination in the bottom of the tubs in the whole time.
The only time I've ever had problems was when we bought some bladder tanks for the small boats.
http://www.orca.eu/uk/forces.php?id_page=57
The increased ethanol in petrol nowadays stripped the lining of the tank which is put there for manufacturing. It created a snot like substance. This quickly blocked both the tank filter and the inline outboard motor filter.
One boat needed new fuel lines.
I notice the manufacturer Of those tanks list them as diesel only now.
So yes, there is a risk, as those people filling with Tesco and morrisons petrol unfortunately found out. If you don't remember here's a link.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motoring/dirty-fuel-blights-thousands
I've always been a bit of a risk taker, I run my electric car to nigh on empty all the time. And I fill my fiat up as little as possible, as I find it a chore.
Yesterday I used the fiat for work. When I started in the morning, the warning of low fuel sounded, the gauge showed 1/4.
10 miles later it showed 1/8, and the petrol light came on. Can't remember exactly when it dropped to the last 1/16 , maybe 10 miles after that?
I've done nearly another 30 miles since.
So total of 60 miles since the sound happened and the dash said "low fuel"
That last 1/16 is still lit.
As I've said earlier, I have driven 18 miles on zero till I ran out.
So potentially 80 miles range after the 1st warning?
Btw, the range showed 30 miles when I started yesterday. My wife had used the car the day before in city rush hour.
I don't intend on running out again, I would limit my zero fuel range to 14 miles, but as Tesco have dropped the price for the weekend to less than £1 I'll fill to the brim at some point over the next 2 days.
We have Tesco selling cheap fuel here too but also another chain that sells at low prices, typically 2c below the rest, I used them since my TA was new as there's a garage local to me, I switched to a more mainstream brand a few months ago and noticed a real difference in smoothness with the TA. We dont get V Power over here so haven't been able to try that unfortunately.
I tried the Tesco momentum 99 for a few tanks once. I didn't find any better. Also the last time I put it in my panda, I had one of the worst tanks mpg wise for a long while.
I've never tried a branded fuel though as I have a fuel genie card which only works in Tesco or morrisons.
I've heard people saying good stuff about the shell petrol, but I've no stations near me as I would love to give a go.
I've never tried a branded fuel though as I have a fuel genie card which only works in Tesco or morrisons.
I've heard people saying good stuff about the shell petrol, but I've no stations near me as I would love to give a go.
Hi. I would definitely not choose to do this sort of thing myself and find the tone of this thread somewhat worrying. In this country at least there is no excuse not to refuel well before you are in reserve. The practice of carrying any fuel especially petrol in the boot is ridiculous. If you are planning a journey in the wilds fill at every opportunity. A 350 to 400 range tank will exceed your safe driving distance for any given day anyway. Our Ducato would cover over 650 miles on a tank holding more than £100 of diesel but still brim it when it gets below 1/3. A vehicle out of fuel is stupidly dangerous and useless.
gar074
Prominent member
I think that brings us neatly back to the question of inaccurate fuel gauges. People will make their own minds up about what types of conduct warrant being described as stupid.
I can think of one excuse.
I personally have a lot more things to do I my life than visiting fuel stations.
If I can go once every 7 days, I will certainly choose to do that over once every 4.
Pandas don't have the luxury of 90 litre tanks with ranges of 650 miles, and to me, refilling when you have over 200 miles left in the tank is no less stupid as nearly running dry.
Each to their own though, no offence meant.
As for inaccurate fuel gauges, going back to boats, our fuel gauges weren't to be trusted.
However, we had a much better thing. Fuel flow meter and measuring fuel used.
We can put in say 400litres, reset the gauge and watch as we used it. As long as you don't go over what you put in, your fine. This was very accurate.
I'd hazard a guess our ecus in our cars record fuel flow and meter usage. If this could be shared with the driver, we'd all know exactly where we are rather than relying on ambiguous digital gauges and range displays showing -----
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gar074
Prominent member
Spot-on, deeyup. We often hear about the trickle-down of technology from F1 to our humble run-arounds. They are able to monitor fuel consumption to the last drop. Now that's a trickle-down that I'd really welcome (along with 0-60 and 60-0 in under 2 seconds, obviously...)
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You mean yours can't :devil:
I find this discussion interesting on a number of levels and don't disagree with anything that's been said even though some of it seems contradictory. Fill your beast up when convenient (and that includes before it needs it).
One thing that does interest me. I gather that running these cars dry isn't a problem - just pour in fuel and drive away. I would like to be clear on this as I've just come from an MG ZR where if you drained the tank, you needed to put well over a third of a tank back in to get the fuel level high enough to fool the fuel system into sucking fuel again (I kid you not).:bang:
And no, I'm not planning to run mine till she stops but sometimes, the only way you know your fuel gauge is fibbing is when the car judders to a halt... and I've only just bought mine.
Running dry on petrols seems to be less of an issue, whereas running dry on diesels seems to require serious work (flushing the fuel system) before the engine can be run again. That being said...
One trickle-down technology that we did get from F1 and also Endurance racing is the whole "measure the fuel flow at the injectors" system that we hate so much. Racing series use this to impose the maximum fuel flow limits stated in their rulebooks, which makes sense, and which is why teams get in trouble when they mess with or miscalibrate the fuel flow meters (provided by the FIA) in the race cars. This, however, is quite unnecessary for consumer grade cars as flow meters are finicky, and other than a certain degree of ECU integration (telling the ECU how much fuel is flowing to the injectors, which the ECU doesn't really need to keep a fuel injected engine running), fuel measurement would be better served by calculating fuel available in the tank. Unfortunately, this is one of those instances where rather than developing more accurate fuel tank measurement systems, the integration of existing technology (fuel flow meters) is "good enough".
One trickle-down technology that we did get from F1 and also Endurance racing is the whole "measure the fuel flow at the injectors" system that we hate so much. Racing series use this to impose the maximum fuel flow limits stated in their rulebooks, which makes sense, and which is why teams get in trouble when they mess with or miscalibrate the fuel flow meters (provided by the FIA) in the race cars. This, however, is quite unnecessary for consumer grade cars as flow meters are finicky, and other than a certain degree of ECU integration (telling the ECU how much fuel is flowing to the injectors, which the ECU doesn't really need to keep a fuel injected engine running), fuel measurement would be better served by calculating fuel available in the tank. Unfortunately, this is one of those instances where rather than developing more accurate fuel tank measurement systems, the integration of existing technology (fuel flow meters) is "good enough".
