General Rear camber ...

[LarboFatster]

Having had a 4 wheel alignment, I find that the rear end camber (not me, the car) is -1.2 and -0.8 degrees (0.4 cross). Is this a concern? Being a fixed/solid axle at the back theres not much I can do short of backing it over the curb hard, which might fix the problem ;-) Advice please, is this degree of miss alignment a concern on this car? I think I might be getting excess outside wear on the tyres as well, is this linked???

 

[poggy]

If it is a new type Ulysse then it is a known issue and several people have had their axles replaced under warranty, they should still change it even outside of the warranty as it was a manufacturing fault.

If it's an old model, then I am afraid I have no idea.

 

[NumanR]

It is not unusual to have slight differences in rear wheel camber and wheel alignment side to side, it is just due to production tolerances. Also dont assume it is a manufacturers problem as suspension can be damaged easily by pot holes, kerbing etc.

 

[poggy]

On some of the new Ulysse, C8 an 807 there was a manufacturer problem though which they tried to fix by fitting 16" wheels and in many cases they changed the whole rear axle.

Normally the inner edge of the tyre scrubs off on the rear tyres. I think Stu had this problem.

 

[stubie]

I've been complaining to my local dealer for a couple of months now about the excessive wear on my outside rear wheels (2 years & 12000 miles) but they would not even look at it without a wheel alignment report. So due to the fact that the manufacturere warranty runs out at the end of the week I booked the car in for tommorow and got a 4 wheel alignment check done today at a cost of £25 to me (this I will be claiming back cause I am pissed at having to prove this point before thry would even look at the problem)

Anyway the specialist reported that there was no alignment on rear wheels and the only way to align them is to use shims to adjust the camber (all gobbildygook to me) so off the machine goes and guess what -major alignment issue on the rear wheels - should be in a range between 0.02 and 0.12 degrees, my rear wheels? - 0.26 on left (with substantial outer wear) and 0.17 on right.

Fronts seem to be fine with both sides falling in the min and max spec which should be between 2.05 - 3.05

So off with my report tommorow and see what happens.

Have printed off reports from one user on the site through in Norwich who got his rims changed to 16" (and rear shocks I believe) under warranty.

Wish me luck

 

[stubie]

Re: Rear camber ...Update

Update

Stoneacre Fiat phoned me today stating that they had had feedback from FIAT and stated that they have been instructed to fit Mitchelin tyres on the back wheels to resolve ?? the uneven wear on the tyres.
They also want a contribution of 40% of the cost of replacing due to the 12000 miles I have done.
I know some people have had rear axles changed, upgrade wheels to 16" etc but has anyone been asked for a contribution due to tyre wear.

Whats your opinion of this resolution, I am thinking that they are perhaps putting off the problem until another day (perhaps when the warranty has ended and I'll be left with a vehicle that will only do 12-15K on the rears)

Stubie

 

[NumanR]

Tyre contribution is normal, like betterment on car insurance.

 

[poggy]

I think you should fight to get them for nothing. You have spent time getting a 4 wheel alignment and quite frankly the dealer is crap for asking you to get it done, they know full well there is no adjustment so it is NOT a service item unlike the front wheels. I suspect they also know there was a problem as it is very common.

You will have to take time to drop the car off and have the new tyres fitted, all this costs you time and money.

This attitude from dealers really annoys me, they should be apologising for the inconvenience you have experienced.

To me it is a matter of safety, as I understand it the Mitchelen tyres are heavy load versions with stronger side walls, which prevent the tyre deforming. The tyres currently fitted are probably deforming under load and wearing, it also makes you wonder whether the profile of the tyre when it is deformed affects the grip.

Just to show you the level of service from Fiat, both Citroen & Peugeot recalled the C8 & 807 in July over safety concerns. It took Fiat until this month to recall the cars for the same faults. These are safety issues and there is no excuse for the delay.

EDIT: By the way the comments weren't aimed at you NumanR, it is normal practice as you said but I think this dealer could do better because of the hassle factor.

 

[stubie]

Thanks for your reply Poggy

I am a bit pi**ed off with the dealer who made me fork out £25 quid of my own money to prove a point that they could have confirmed if they had just spend some time looking at it. It was like they did not want to as this would then admit that there is a problem.

Surely this is a FIAT problem as they should have fitted these Mitchelin at factory, I feel why should I pay out on tyres when I have done 12000 miles when normal wear would be at least double that.
I am just waiting for the cost of the dealer supplying these tyres which will no doubt be astronomical compared to the local tyre fix-it around the corner.

If I do have to pay a contribution I wil be taking of the £25 already apid out for the alignment check.

Stubie

 

[NumanR]

You are assuming alot, give the dealer a chance, you are complaining before you even have prices for the tyres. Also, why should a manufacturer pay for tyre wear that you have used? You accept that the tyres would last approx twice the distance you have covered, who did you think was going to pay for tyres at 24000 miles? I agree the cost of the 4WA check should be covered by Fiat or the dealer, but the tyres would have worn any way with use and Fiat are only responsible for the excessive part of the wear and not the normal part of the wear.

 

[stubie]

Well what if I said to FIAT I'll pay my 40% in two years time when the tyres would have to have been replaced. What do you think they would say.

As already stated on this forum and on the eurovan site this problem is not unique to me so why don't FIAT own up and say "look we put the wrong tyres on the car - but we are going to sort it"

This is my 2nd ulysee, I bought the previous model at about 10 months kept it for 2 years before upgrading to the new model, look at the list of issues that have been discussed. I personally have the driver seat foam breaking up, the paint on the rear runners flaking off, electric windows opening themselves amongst others. This is supposed to be a newer, upgraded model.

Now I'm not saying the car is crap, It's main feature to me is the reliable/robust/economical (although not as economical as the figures state) Diesel engine and the 5 * NCAP rating for the wife and kids, but I paid more for the van than I have ever paid for a car in my life and as such I will be keeping it for at least 5 years if not more.

It's time manufactures held their hands up and started being honest for once and as soon as they find a problem put a resolve to fix it at their expense not the customers. Do you think it will happen ?