Technical Rear bushes help

[RuSZ]

Hi guys.

Anyone done the rear bushes?

I’ve read the guide, but need a bit more information

We’ve got the springs and shocks off to drop the arm, however the bolts on the bushes are just spinning and we can’t get anything in the gap to stop the bolt spinning as the room between the bolt and the tank/exhaust is too small.

I’m presuming that the tank and exhaust need removing.

Or has anyone do it without removing the tank and exhaust

How difficult is the tank to remove?

 

[Davren]

Never heard of anyone needing to remove the tank or exhaust to remove the bush retaining nuts and bolts.

I've done them on 2 Stilos without removing the tank or exhaust.
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[RuSZ]

Never heard of anyone needing to remove the tank or exhaust to remove the bush retaining nuts and bolts.

I've done them on 2 Stilos without removing the tank or exhaust.
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Hi Davren.

As in the bolts holding the bracket onto the chassis, or the bolt through the bush

(Red or blue on the image below)

Thing is me and dombooth tried the red bolts, but one started to round off.

When we tried to remove the blue one, the nut started freely moving, but couldn’t get a socket on it because of the tight space between it and the fuel tank. Hence thinking we had to remove the tank.

 

[Ralf S.]

I'm confused which bit or bush you're having problems with.

The swing-arm bush has a bolt that passes through it but both the bolt head and the nut on the back are well clear of the petrol tank. The bolt is number 7 in the picture.

Or are you changing the sub-frame bushes? That's a whole different kettle of fish (and yes, tank and exhaust probably would need to come off).


Ralf S.

 

[RuSZ]

I'm confused which bit or bush you're having problems with.



The swing-arm bush has a bolt that passes through it but both the bolt head and the nut on the back are well clear of the petrol tank. The bolt is number 7 in the picture.



Or are you changing the sub-frame bushes? That's a whole different kettle of fish (and yes, tank and exhaust probably would need to come off).





Ralf S.

Changing the bush in that picture labelled as number 9.

Which from what I’ve read from your post, will need the exhaust and tank dropping.

 

[Davren]

Both times I've done them I removed the 2 brackets that are each held on with 4 short bolts, then dropped the complete sub frame to remove the long bolts through the bushes. No need to remove the tank or exhaust.

If you have HID headlamps, don't forget to disconnect the rear levelling sensor link rod before lowering the sub frame, otherwise the sensor arm will break.

I'm abroad at the moment so don't have acess to all the photos I took when doing them before.
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[Ralf S.]

No... it's the other way round.

The *swing-arm* bushes should be able to unbolt without touching much else, although mine were changed by a garage and if I remember correctly, I think they said they had to lower the sub-frame slightly (just loosening the bolts) to improve access. But they didn't remove the exhaust or fuel tank.

I'll have a look at mine later to see how much clearance there is.


I only replaced *sub-frame* bushes once (on an Alfa 155 so maybe not exactly the same as Stilo) and that was only possible once the exhaust and tank were removed, since the subframe bolts to the car before they add the tank and exhaust.


Ralf S.

 

[RuSZ]

Both times I've done them I removed the 2 brackets that are each held on with 4 short bolts, then dropped the complete sub frame to remove the long bolts through the bushes. No need to remove the tank or exhaust.

If you have HID headlamps, don't forget to disconnect the rear levelling sensor link rod before lowering the sub frame, otherwise the sensor arm will break.

I'm abroad at the moment so don't have acess to all the photos I took when doing them before.
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That’s where my issue is. Those four bolts that hold the bracket. We tried removing one but it started to round off the nut. Which is why we’re having to look at dropping the tank in order to access the bolt through the bush.

No HID lights. So that’s not an issue.

 

[RuSZ]

No... it's the other way round.



The *swing-arm* bushes should be able to unbolt without touching much else, although mine were changed by a garage and if I remember correctly, I think they said they had to lower the sub-frame slightly (just loosening the bolts) to improve access. But they didn't remove the exhaust or fuel tank.



I'll have a look at mine later to see how much clearance there is.





I only replaced *sub-frame* bushes once (on an Alfa 155 so maybe not exactly the same as Stilo) and that was only possible once the exhaust and tank were removed, since the subframe bolts to the car before they add the tank and exhaust.





Ralf S.

It’s these bushes in the attached photo.

We removed the springs and shocks in order to remove the beam, but when removing the 4 bolts holding the bracket and bush to the chassis we rounded one off.

So we looked at removing the bolt through the bush, but that is against the tank.

Looks like it’s a tank off job.

That’s fine. The tank is empty anyway.

Anyone removed the tank, is it just the retaining straps and pipes.

 

[Ralf S.]

You need to disconnet the electrics and hoses to the fuel pump (on top of the tank - access is through a hatch under the rear passenger seat)... then also uncouple the filler pipe. Otherwise it's just the two straps.

If yours is a UK car then remember that the bolts have been there 14 or 15 years probably and might decide they'd prefer to stay rusted into the captive nuts. They could shear off when you try to undo them.

Since it's not the ideal place to use a blow-torch (in any case the tank is made from plastic) put on a lot of penetrating oil - Plusgas or similar - and leave it to soak into the threads for a few hours, then apply some more and let it soak in for a few hours. Use a good combination spanner rather than a socket so you can feel better what's happening to the bolt.

If they don't shear off but are stiff, let them cool down every so often as you undo them (they get real hot) so that they don't shear off when they're halfway out. You'll need a fair bit of the spray to help them out (fine pitch bolts, from memory, and rust don't mix). Don't refit any bolt that was tricky to remove... get new ones.


Ralf S.

 

[RuSZ]

You need to disconnet the electrics and hoses to the fuel pump (on top of the tank - access is through a hatch under the rear passenger seat)... then also uncouple the filler pipe. Otherwise it's just the two straps.



If yours is a UK car then remember that the bolts have been there 14 or 15 years probably and might decide they'd prefer to stay rusted into the captive nuts. They could shear off when you try to undo them.



Since it's not the ideal place to use a blow-torch (in any case the tank is made from plastic) put on a lot of penetrating oil - Plusgas or similar - and leave it to soak into the threads for a few hours, then apply some more and let it soak in for a few hours. Use a good combination spanner rather than a socket so you can feel better what's happening to the bolt.



If they don't shear off but are stiff, let them cool down every so often as you undo them (they get real hot) so that they don't shear off when they're halfway out. You'll need a fair bit of the spray to help them out (fine pitch bolts, from memory, and rust don't mix). Don't refit any bolt that was tricky to remove... get new ones.





Ralf S.

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For reference, it’s this f*cker I’m trying to replace.

This is the one where the nut on the bolt through the bush is spinning.

As you can see, the bolts on the bracket onto the chassis are shagged.

 

[Ralf S.]

I would just cut the bolt heads off with an angle grinder..

You'll maybe have to remove the fuel tank to get the rest of the bolt out but that might not be so bad as the bolts look.

After that, if it was me.. it could be worth "testing" the subframe bracket bolts to see if they'll come out. A load of penetrating oil and a long time for it to soak in... and they could come out easier than it looks. You need to clean up that rust in there a bit otherwise Dr Death the MOT man will fail it, even with new bushes.

Before you put the new bushes in, find the Fiat spec' sheet on this forum somewhere that tells you how to fit it. The arrow has to be pointing at the welded seam on the swing-arm when the car is on the ground, or something like that.

Winding in the new bushes is also easier if you get a wire brush on a drill (or better still, a flap wheel) and ream out the receiver. Clean it up and remove anything that's not metal. It'll make the new bush easier to press in.

Some people also machine the bush casing a little.

When you fit it, use some Loctite 638 to seal the joint.. it'll keep moisture out and prevent the bush from rotating under load. Rotating isn't a disaster... but if the bush has to be fitted with the arrow pointing at the swing arm, then you want to keep it there.

The bolts for the subframe (if you can get any of them out) are likely to be fine-pitch M10x1.25 and approx 35mm long .. but it's better to have one out before you go and buy new ones, since fine pitch are about £1 each on the bay of Fleas.


Ralf S.

 

[Ralf S.]

Here's a thread with a long rambling discussion about tools and how to fit the bush... but quite interesting.

https://www.fiatforum.com/stilo/248971-franklin-tools-stilo-rear-bushes-8.html


Ralf S.

 

[RuSZ]

Ralf S.

Rust not an issue.

MOT is what’s prompted the change and rust wasn’t a concern. See below list of fails, all sorted except rear bushes. no advisories

Also, you mention the retaining bolts, those are what rounded when trying to remove, so hence the need to go about changing the differently.

As for fitting the bush. I’ve got a guide on how to do it. The one shadeyman wrote ages ago. So know it needs lining up in a certain way.

Got a sand paper flap thingy and plenty of copper slip [emoji106]

 

[RuSZ]

So have the rear bushes another go today, this time on my own.

Everything going reasonably well, got the springs and shocks off in 20 minutes. Got the tank straps undone in another 40. (Awkward to find and a few stiff) and got the fuel pipes, electrics and handbrake cable released.

That’s where it all came falling down.

No matter what, I couldn’t actually get the tank to lower. It’s moving around, so not attached, but couldn’t get it on the floor as it’s catching on the beam, which I’m wanting to remove, but need to remove the tank to do it ??*??*??*??*

So I’ve had a paddy with it. I’ve bolted everything back on and she’s been parked up out of the way.

If i can be arsed ill find time next weekend. Maybe I’ll see what a garage quotes for just doing the rear bushes.

Ideally it’s a two man job, but not got the help I needed this week.

But not in a good mood with Nero now.

 

[RuSZ]

Given up. She’s going to a garage to fit the bushes. For £120 I cannot be arsed complaining.

 

[Ralf S.]

Given up. She’s going to a garage to fit the bushes. For £120 I cannot be arsed complaining.

Good call!

I had a look at mine and worked out that for £100 plus VAT (a couple of years ago) the garage could have the pleasure. I leant them the proper tool since I had it.. and the Fiat eLearn instruction guide and it was still a real Mo-Fo for them... but no trouble with it since (touches wood). Lifes too short sometimes...

Ralf S.

 

[jim cooper]

Just wondering what happens if you need a second set of replacement bushes. Fiat say you can only replace the bushes once so if they go again presumably you would need to replace the whole subframe assembly. Is this still available as a Fiat part?

 

[RuSZ]

Just wondering what happens if you need a second set of replacement bushes. Fiat say you can only replace the bushes once so if they go again presumably you would need to replace the whole subframe assembly. Is this still available as a Fiat part?

From what I’ve read previously, they are referring to the bolts.

The subframe itself should be expected to last the lifetime of the vehicle.

however the bolts can become worn when removing and the torque/stress loads, like the bushes, so can only be reused a certain amount of times.

 

[Davren]

Just wondering what happens if you need a second set of replacement bushes. Fiat say you can only replace the bushes once so if they go again presumably you would need to replace the whole subframe assembly. Is this still available as a Fiat part?

I doubt anyone here has attempted to buy a complete subframe. Phone call to a Fiat dealer perhaps?

From what I’ve read previously, they are referring to the bolts.

The subframe itself should be expected to last the lifetime of the vehicle.

A note at the top of page 2 of the Service News document says the bushes can only be replaced once. Possibly because of wear or stretch of the bush housings in the subframe.
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