General Re-spray

[timgarman]

Thinking ahead to when my car is ready to be sprayed, hopefully after Christmas.

Spray shops near us are now set up to use a water based spray paint process. Just wondering what this is, is it better than traditional spray paints? Can you drive in the rain – lol?

Tim

 

[fiat500]

Tim, I'm sure we've debated paint systems before.
I would let the paint-shop use what they're geared up for. Otherwise you're probably looking for a specialist and that will cost you. Modern paint done properly will be hard wearing, shiny and easy to maintain.
Personally, think that original paints like cellulose look better on older cars and the finish can be a lot flatter but the paints are are generally more prone to deterioration and need more maintenance to keep their shine.

 

[Franko500]

Hi Tim,
you basically have 3 main types of paint.
1. Cellulose, this is an air drying paint that is very high in solvent/thinner content.
Anyone can paint this providing you have a suitable mask. Once painted, you can buff it up, or you can flat & polish it to give a piano type finish that you can see your face in.
Down side is this product can be quite time consuming as you need to spray a good 5-6 coats to get a build up of colour. The paint is also prone to fading and going dull but can be easily polished again. It hates bird poop so wash it off immediately. It takes forever to harden properly, some people say it gets harder as it gets older. Im sure there are a few thinking if only that applied to everything!
2. 2 pack or 2K, this is a 3 component product. Paint, thinner & hardener.
This product is a high build paint that can usually mean only 2 coats required.
Due to the hardener it can be cured in 40 minutes in a low temperature oven.
It can be flat & polished, but if you leave it too long after fully cured it is really hard to get back to a full luster.
This product is lethal, do not paint this unless you have charcoal filtered mask or better still a fully air fed mask & the air needs to be fully filtered from water & oil. It is also advisable to wear full paper overalls & gloves as this stuff can be poisonous through your skin.
It is a lot tougher and flexible additives can be included to paint flexible plastics etc. It is very durable and is more resistant to bird poop & brake fluid etc.
3. Water borne paint. This is paint & a water thinner (cant remember if it has a hardener) for the base coat/colour. Once applied it is air dried to evaporate the water. Then a 2k clear lacquer is applied to give it a tough exterior coat. As you can imagine without it the colour paint will be damaged by water etc.
Still very toxic, usual mask/filters required as per 2k. Its no quicker than 2k but has far less solvent content to meet latest regulations. The base coat and lacquer method is also far better for painting 1 or 2 panels as you can fade the colour into adjoining panels easier. The lacquer is also better for reds etc as it helps prevent fading in the sunlight.

As to preference, it depends on are you doing it? what equipment/experience do you have? what type of finish you want? as Peter said if you want it to look original then go cellulose. If you want it to last and use it in all weathers etc then go 2k or water based. If you want metalic/pearl paint then you need to use base coat & lacquer and choose either 2k or water.

Hope this helps.

 

[Vitesse]

Sean I know you have a lot of experience of this so you should be able to clarify something. Don't all spray shops in Europe used water based 2K or 2 Pack paint nowadays due to EU legislation. So in general terms the sprayers just continue to refer to it as 2K or 2 Pack despite the fact it has changed?

 

[Franko500]

2K paint is still available to bodyshops etc, although they have driven it towards high solid content to reduce the VOC's. Small repairers are more than likely to use the old 2k as they fall below the limit of how much they use per year. But main stream bodyshops use so much paint they have to comply to legislation and therefore have no alternative than to adhere to water borne paints with the exception of a few cases. One being Classic car restoration where they are allowed to use high solvent paints ie cullulose.

There is a lot of information on the web about it, but it is very complicated. I found this extract from a paint supplier that kind of sums it up.

PRODUCT INFORMATION

2K/2PACK Compliancy Regulations and Health and Safety
You may only purchase non-compliant 2K products if you intend to use them for industrial or agricultural uses and not for automotive purposes as this is now illegal.
If purchasing 2K products we will ask you to confirm that you will be using a full face spray mask and breathing equipment and that you are aware of the poisonous nature of 2K products. When making a purchase we insist that you tick a box to state that you have read and understood these terms and conditions.

2-pack or "2K" isocyanate-containing paints are strictly for professional use only and must be sprayed in a controlled environment that meets health and safety regulations.
Spraying 2-pack isocyanate paints is the main cause of occupational asthma in the UK and, for years, vehicle paint sprayers have been the group most at risk. Significant skin contact with isocyanate hardeners may cause dermatitis.

Autopaints Brighton will not be held liable for any incidents, legal proceedings and other repercussions if you use any of our 2K products. We trust our customers to be honest and fair and as such we are able to sell you 2K products in good faith.
Below are some key tips for vehicle paint sprayers and owners of motor vehicle repair bodyshops.

Vehicle paint sprayers
The risk of developing occupational asthma occurs because paint spraying produces a lot of invisible airborne mist that you can breathe in. Never spray paint outside the booth or room.
Your booth/room takes time to clear of mist, so know the clearance time and make sure everyone else does too.
Always wear air-fed breathing apparatus (BA) when spraying and know how to safely leave or enter your booth or room during the clearance time.
Bodyshop owners / managers
Spraying 2-pack isocyanate paints creates fine, invisible, airborne mist that can cause occupational asthma
It spreads through the air like smoke.
Spray booths take time to clear of fine paint mist, this can be checked with a smoke/fog generator
Make sure the booth/room runs at slight negative pressure so that if there are any leaks, air is drawn into the booth/room rather than paint mist leaking out into the workshop
Check exposure is properly controlled by arranging for the analysis of urine samples of vehicle paint sprayers.
Autopaints Brighton cannot be held liable for any incidents, legal proceedings and other repercussions if you use any of our 2K products. We trust our customers to be honest and fair and as such we are able to sell you 2K products in good faith. Complaint 2K products are available; please contact us for further information.
For more information please see the HSE website.

Cellulose Paint

PLEASE NOTE THAT CELLULOSE PAINT IS NOT PETROL RESISTANT

Cellulose products are for industrial use and for vintage/classic cars only.
Unfortunately the term "classic" is a grey area as it is not specified in which year a vehicle becomes a classic.
When ordering please state purpose of use and registration number of the vehicle if you are painting a classic vehicle.
It is against the law for us to supply and for you to use Cellulose on modern vehicles or any other use that falls outside the 3 applications listed below:
Industrial Use
Restoration of Classic & Vintage Vehicles
Aerosols


NOTES REGARDING SOLVENT BASED PAINTS. It is against the law to use non-compliant solvent based products and materials for refinishing of motor vehicles, unless the vehicle is classified as vintage or classic.
We can supply a full range of compliant materials to suite all our customers’ requirements including water based paint. Non-compliant solvent based paints will still be available for customers spraying Industrial Plant/ Machinery and Classic Vehicles only.

 

[timgarman]

Thanks, that tells me all I need to know and more.
Water based paint shops tend to be the larger outfits here in NZ and it's still fairly new, but I have a place in mind, probably after Christmas.
Tim