punto speaker size??

[g50245]

Ok, according to the specs on the web page, your H/U pushes out 50w RMS power (over each of the 4 channels).
To handle the load without blowing the speaker coils, you will need speakers that are rated at least 60-65w RMS.
Not sure if you like them, but the ones mentioned by jip0 will handle the load without a problem (90w).

i dont have original FIAT headunit i have a kenwood one, sub ready.

il get model number or a link to spec for ya...

http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_id/10435.html

thats my headunit

 

[Brin]

Ok, according to the specs on the web page, your H/U pushes out 50w RMS power (over each of the 4 channels).
To handle the load without blowing the speaker coils, you will need speakers that are rated at least 60-65w RMS.
Not sure if you like them, but the ones mentioned by jip0 will handle the load without a problem (90w).

so will the kenwood 35w speakers not work with my headunit or are you just sayin that i could do better and get the 90w ones??

will the kenwood speakers still work cos the original ones work fine with my headunit

 

[g50245]

You're asking a difficult question.
On a purely "will it function/work" level, the answer is yes. On a "are they suitable/ideal" level, the answer is no.

All speakers will work with any unit. The problem is the power of the H/U. If the speakers are rated lower than the power of the H/U, unless you're going to keep the volume at bare minimum, the coils in the speakers will not be able to handle the load and will eventually blow. Using lower rated speakers also means that the sound will start distorting and rapidly degrade - sometimes as low as 15-20% and onwards volume (these figures are not accurate and are dependent on several factors. I've used them just to give you an idea).

If you are, as you said, going to play music that is heavy on the base, I would certainly consider speakers more suitable. The possibility of them blowing is real.
If, as in your case, you are using speakers that are rated lower (yours are about 35% lower), and have had no problems then there is no problem using them. Obviously you need to be aware of the 'dangers' and adjust yourself accordingly.
As in all cases, your actions (the variable part in the equation), will determine the overall outcome.

so will the kenwood 35w speakers not work with my headunit or are you just sayin that i could do better and get the 90w ones??

will the kenwood speakers still work cos the original ones work fine with my headunit

 

[volxstu]

i cant believe the misgiving of information in this thread. Im just about to jump on a plane but as soon as i get to my destination i will correct things .

Also the comment about kiddies.... No its for people who like music or have real tallent in making spl set ups.

 

[Brin]

You're asking a difficult question.
On a purely "will it function/work" level, the answer is yes. On a "are they suitable/ideal" level, the answer is no.

All speakers will work with any unit. The problem is the power of the H/U. If the speakers are rated lower than the power of the H/U, unless you're going to keep the volume at bare minimum, the coils in the speakers will not be able to handle the load and will eventually blow. Using lower rated speakers also means that the sound will start distorting and rapidly degrade - sometimes as low as 15-20% and onwards volume (these figures are not accurate and are dependent on several factors. I've used them just to give you an idea).

If you are, as you said, going to play music that is heavy on the base, I would certainly consider speakers more suitable. The possibility of them blowing is real.
If, as in your case, you are using speakers that are rated lower (yours are about 35% lower), and have had no problems then there is no problem using them. Obviously you need to be aware of the 'dangers' and adjust yourself accordingly.
As in all cases, your actions (the variable part in the equation), will determine the overall outcome.

im gettin confused with this thread lol but i think you know what your talking about lol

right so basically any speaker will work, if its lower power i run risk of blowing and sh*tty sound quality like my orignals, if its higher power then its the dogs ******, right

im on a budget so il see how much WATTS i can get for my money lol

thanks for all help

i cant believe the misgiving of information in this thread. Im just about to jump on a plane but as soon as i get to my destination i will correct things .

Also the comment about kiddies.... No its for people who like music or have real tallent in making spl set ups.

lol i like subs too if there installed neatly into the boot, but im not too interested just yet need to do some more things firsrt

 

[volxstu]

rite i hav been a bit delayed so have 5 mins. I have only scanned the thread but i have a couple of points that may be of use.

HU's are 50w max power so that would be about 20w rms per channel. This is lame. You need much more power than this on any speaker. This is so you get a nikce chrisp sound as you are not working the amp so hard. The harder you work an amp the more distortion you get.

For this reason you should try and use an amp slightly more powerful than the speakers. You can then turn the gain down a little and get better quality. Remember distortion kills speakers not power.

It doesnt matter what power handling the speakers are if you are not giving them anywhere near there required power. A 10w rms speaker will not be any louder than a 100w rms speaker as you are giving them the same power.

Distortion in the standard system comes from the HU not the speakers. This also hapens with aftermarket hu's and speakers hence the need to use an external amp. Not to mention the better quality components used to make a better quality sound.

 

[Brin]

rite i hav been a bit delayed so have 5 mins. I have only scanned the thread but i have a couple of points that may be of use.

HU's are 50w max power so that would be about 20w rms per channel. This is lame. You need much more power than this on any speaker. This is so you get a nikce chrisp sound as you are not working the amp so hard. The harder you work an amp the more distortion you get.

For this reason you should try and use an amp slightly more powerful than the speakers. You can then turn the gain down a little and get better quality. Remember distortion kills speakers not power.

It doesnt matter what power handling the speakers are if you are not giving them anywhere near there required power. A 10w rms speaker will not be any louder than a 100w rms speaker as you are giving them the same power.

Distortion in the standard system comes from the HU not the speakers. This also hapens with aftermarket hu's and speakers hence the need to use an external amp. Not to mention the better quality components used to make a better quality sound.

ok thank you, i have 50w to each of the 4 speakers from my kenwood headunit aftermarket, i had standard speakers in which distorted at like volume 20 hence the driversand passengr speakers now rattle all the time cos i think theyve had it. ANyway im wanting to put 35w speakers in i dunno how much the original speaker wer, but i can only afford the 35w ones.

So they will work great as a replacement set frpm the standardss, and maybe be a bit better sound quality.

 

[g50245]

Volxstu,
Perhaps you should consider looking up the definition of 'misgiving'....

And yes, amps etc etc are really for kiddies or attention seekers - this is MY opinion. You can share it or not.
If I want to hear good quality music, the car is nost definitely NOT the place I'd do it. Acoustics are all wrong. Cars are not designed for correct propagation.

To try and answer your points:
Brin's HU is rated at 50w PER channel, not 20w unless you can show technical specs that prove otherwise...

Most audio power amplifiers are rated for their maximum RMS power output capability of an essentially undistorted signal to a specified load (speaker) impedance. Under certain conditions, a relationship exists between the peak power and the RMS power rating of an amplifier. (The term "RMS" stands for "Root-Mean-Square" and describes the mathematical steps required to calculate the average power of an AC sine wave, which is the graph of instantaneous signal in a pure tone.

Now, if you're trying to tell me that with most manufacturers, this is a 'theoretical' value and, in real life, most HU's don't reach this value then I could agree with you.

You need much more power than this on any speaker. This is so you get a nice chrisp sound as you are not working the amp so hard. The harder you work an amp the more distortion you get.

Pure gumf.
Amplifiers are basically designed to amplify small voltage input signals into much larger output signals and this means that the output signal is constantly changing by some factor or value times the input signal at all input frequencies.

The Power, Voltage or Current Gain, (amplification) provided by the amplifier is the ratio of the peak input value to its peak output value. However, if the amplifier circuit is designed incorrectly and the biasing Q-point set at the wrong position on the load line or apply too large an input signal, the resultant output signal may not be an exact reproduction of the original input signal waveform. i.e: distortion.

Common reasons why distortion is taking place:
- Amplification may not be taking place over the whole signal cycle due to incorrect biasing.
- The input may be too large, causing the amplifier to limit.
- The amplification may not be linear over the entire frequency range of inputs
Usually, the reason for these occurrences is because the amplifier power rating was much greater than the speaker was designed to handle. This situation is seen frequently in speakers used in DJ applications, where the program material contains continuous heavy bass signals. Even worse, often the amplifiers are overdriven into clipping due to the desire for even more bass.
Unfortunately, amplifier ratings and speaker power ratings as described by the respective manufacturers are not directly related to each other, and users often choose a speaker with a rating that appears to match the amplifier, when in fact the speaker is severely underrated. That is, an amplifier rated at 100 watts does not necessarily match a speaker rated at "100 watts".
POWER is the rate at which energy is converted from one form to another. The basic international unit of energy is called a JOULE and is defined as the amount of work energy performed by applying a certain amount of force (called a NEWTON) through a distance of one meter. The number of Joules of energy converted each second defines the amount of Power in WATTS. 1 Watt = 1 Joule/second; 5 watts = 5 Joules/second, etc. For instance, if your exercycle had a generator connected to a lamp, the brightness of the lamp would depend on how hard and fast you pedaled. The faster and harder you pedal, the more power you generate and the brighter will be the lamp.

The purpose of an amplifier and speaker system is to convert the raw electrical energy from the AC power line into acoustic (sound) energy that you can hear. During this process, energy is converted from matter (such as coal or gas) into heat, then mechanical energy, then (possibly through magnetic energy) into electricity. From your AC power outlet the electrical energy is controlled by the amplifier in order to build a weak electrical signal into a strong signal, which is fed to the speaker to create magnetic energy, which pushes the speaker cone back and forth (mechanical energy), which moves air molecules in order to convert some of that mechanical energy into sound energy. The more energy (per second) is converted into sound, the louder the sound will be. So volume depends on the amount of electrical POWER used to create the sound by the speaker.
There are a number of methods used to describe the power of an electrical signal. These methods are given names such as "instantaneous power", "average power", "RMS Power", "peak power", "Music power", "Program Power" and others.

In order to move the speaker cone in the complex manner required to accurately reproduce sounds, the power must be continually and rapidly varying. The power being used at any instant during the process is called "instantaneous power". However, since that is always changing, it is not useful for describing the capability of an amplifier or speaker.

Remember distortion kills speakers not power.
It doesnt matter what power handling the speakers are if you are not giving them anywhere near there required power. A 10w rms speaker will not be any louder than a 100w rms speaker as you are giving them the same power.

Not fully correct.
The 2 primary causes of speaker failure:
- Continuous power output from the amplifier is greater than the speaker is designed to handle. This usually burns up the voice coil in the woofers.
- Excessive distortion caused by trying to get more volume (power) from the amplifier than it is capable of delivering. (Underpowered system.) This causes the amplifier to go into clipping, which produces excessive high frequency energy and causes the amplifier to go into clipping, which produces excessive high frequency energy and burns up the tweeters or horns.

Distortion in the standard system comes from the HU not the speakers. This also hapens with aftermarket hu's and speakers hence the need to use an external amp. Not to mention the better quality components used to make a better quality sound.

Again, partly correct.
Distortion does come from the HU (amplifier), but as a direct result of the QUALITY of the HU amp.
An external amp is not really required. Why should it be? If the HU amp is of good quality, then you do not need an amp. All the external amp does (provided it is good quality), is eliminate / reduce the effects of a poorly designed HU amplifier, delivering "distortionless" output to the speakers.

If you want, I can give you the full scientific/ mathematical explanations to go with what I am saying.

 

[g50245]

Brin,
All I can see happening, is that you're getting more confused than ever. We can discuss this until the cows come home with loads of mathematical data, and you won't be in a better position than before.

Bottom line - use whatever speakers you have available or can afford, just be careful with the volume knob (and bass setting) if they are rated lower than your HU.
Once you have more means, if you still want to, go to a professional and let them guide you.

ok thank you, i have 50w to each of the 4 speakers from my kenwood headunit aftermarket, i had standard speakers in which distorted at like volume 20 hence the driversand passengr speakers now rattle all the time cos i think theyve had it. ANyway im wanting to put 35w speakers in i dunno how much the original speaker wer, but i can only afford the 35w ones.

So they will work great as a replacement set frpm the standardss, and maybe be a bit better sound quality.

 

[Brin]

Volxstu,
Perhaps you should consider looking up the definition of 'misgiving'....

And yes, amps etc etc are really for kiddies or attention seekers - this is MY opinion. You can share it or not.
If I want to hear good quality music, the car is nost definitely NOT the place I'd do it. Acoustics are all wrong. Cars are not designed for correct propagation.

To try and answer your points:
Brin's HU is rated at 50w PER channel, not 20w unless you can show technical specs that prove otherwise...

Most audio power amplifiers are rated for their maximum RMS power output capability of an essentially undistorted signal to a specified load (speaker) impedance. Under certain conditions, a relationship exists between the peak power and the RMS power rating of an amplifier. (The term "RMS" stands for "Root-Mean-Square" and describes the mathematical steps required to calculate the average power of an AC sine wave, which is the graph of instantaneous signal in a pure tone.

Now, if you're trying to tell me that with most manufacturers, this is a 'theoretical' value and, in real life, most HU's don't reach this value then I could agree with you.



Pure gumf.
Amplifiers are basically designed to amplify small voltage input signals into much larger output signals and this means that the output signal is constantly changing by some factor or value times the input signal at all input frequencies.

The Power, Voltage or Current Gain, (amplification) provided by the amplifier is the ratio of the peak input value to its peak output value. However, if the amplifier circuit is designed incorrectly and the biasing Q-point set at the wrong position on the load line or apply too large an input signal, the resultant output signal may not be an exact reproduction of the original input signal waveform. i.e: distortion.

Common reasons why distortion is taking place:
- Amplification may not be taking place over the whole signal cycle due to incorrect biasing.
- The input may be too large, causing the amplifier to limit.
- The amplification may not be linear over the entire frequency range of inputs
Usually, the reason for these occurrences is because the amplifier power rating was much greater than the speaker was designed to handle. This situation is seen frequently in speakers used in DJ applications, where the program material contains continuous heavy bass signals. Even worse, often the amplifiers are overdriven into clipping due to the desire for even more bass.
Unfortunately, amplifier ratings and speaker power ratings as described by the respective manufacturers are not directly related to each other, and users often choose a speaker with a rating that appears to match the amplifier, when in fact the speaker is severely underrated. That is, an amplifier rated at 100 watts does not necessarily match a speaker rated at "100 watts".
POWER is the rate at which energy is converted from one form to another. The basic international unit of energy is called a JOULE and is defined as the amount of work energy performed by applying a certain amount of force (called a NEWTON) through a distance of one meter. The number of Joules of energy converted each second defines the amount of Power in WATTS. 1 Watt = 1 Joule/second; 5 watts = 5 Joules/second, etc. For instance, if your exercycle had a generator connected to a lamp, the brightness of the lamp would depend on how hard and fast you pedaled. The faster and harder you pedal, the more power you generate and the brighter will be the lamp.

The purpose of an amplifier and speaker system is to convert the raw electrical energy from the AC power line into acoustic (sound) energy that you can hear. During this process, energy is converted from matter (such as coal or gas) into heat, then mechanical energy, then (possibly through magnetic energy) into electricity. From your AC power outlet the electrical energy is controlled by the amplifier in order to build a weak electrical signal into a strong signal, which is fed to the speaker to create magnetic energy, which pushes the speaker cone back and forth (mechanical energy), which moves air molecules in order to convert some of that mechanical energy into sound energy. The more energy (per second) is converted into sound, the louder the sound will be. So volume depends on the amount of electrical POWER used to create the sound by the speaker.
There are a number of methods used to describe the power of an electrical signal. These methods are given names such as "instantaneous power", "average power", "RMS Power", "peak power", "Music power", "Program Power" and others.

In order to move the speaker cone in the complex manner required to accurately reproduce sounds, the power must be continually and rapidly varying. The power being used at any instant during the process is called "instantaneous power". However, since that is always changing, it is not useful for describing the capability of an amplifier or speaker.



Not fully correct.
The 2 primary causes of speaker failure:
- Continuous power output from the amplifier is greater than the speaker is designed to handle. This usually burns up the voice coil in the woofers.
- Excessive distortion caused by trying to get more volume (power) from the amplifier than it is capable of delivering. (Underpowered system.) This causes the amplifier to go into clipping, which produces excessive high frequency energy and causes the amplifier to go into clipping, which produces excessive high frequency energy and burns up the tweeters or horns.



Again, partly correct.
Distortion does come from the HU (amplifier), but as a direct result of the QUALITY of the HU amp.
An external amp is not really required. Why should it be? If the HU amp is of good quality, then you do not need an amp. All the external amp does (provided it is good quality), is eliminate / reduce the effects of a poorly designed HU amplifier, delivering "distortionless" output to the speakers.

If you want, I can give you the full scientific/ mathematical explanations to go with what I am saying.

sh*t man, you went on a all out mission with this one...

i dont have a clue of anything you just rote up there lmao

Brin,
All I can see happening, is that you're getting more confused than ever. We can discuss this until the cows come home with loads of mathematical data, and you won't be in a better position than before.

Bottom line - use whatever speakers you have available or can afford, just be careful with the volume knob (and bass setting) if they are rated lower than your HU.
Once you have more means, if you still want to, go to a professional and let them guide you.

yeh i couldnt agrre more mate, im buying the kenwood speakers 35w, they will be fine for me lmao

i change the volume due to track cos some tracks sound louder probly cos of the quality of the track, i leave the bass on highest +8 and Bass Boost Level 2, keep volume mostly at 16-20 will be fine if they blow again il buy summat better and keep it down lol

cheers everyone try not to start a world war over this thread lmao take it easy lads thanks.

 

[volxstu]

Volxstu,
Perhaps you should consider looking up the definition of 'misgiving'....

And yes, amps etc etc are really for kiddies or attention seekers - this is MY opinion. You can share it or not.
If I want to hear good quality music, the car is nost definitely NOT the place I'd do it. Acoustics are all wrong. Cars are not designed for correct propagation.

To try and answer your points:
Brin's HU is rated at 50w PER channel, not 20w unless you can show technical specs that prove otherwise...

Most audio power amplifiers are rated for their maximum RMS power output capability of an essentially undistorted signal to a specified load (speaker) impedance. Under certain conditions, a relationship exists between the peak power and the RMS power rating of an amplifier. (The term "RMS" stands for "Root-Mean-Square" and describes the mathematical steps required to calculate the average power of an AC sine wave, which is the graph of instantaneous signal in a pure tone.

Now, if you're trying to tell me that with most manufacturers, this is a 'theoretical' value and, in real life, most HU's don't reach this value then I could agree with you.



Pure gumf.
Amplifiers are basically designed to amplify small voltage input signals into much larger output signals and this means that the output signal is constantly changing by some factor or value times the input signal at all input frequencies.

The Power, Voltage or Current Gain, (amplification) provided by the amplifier is the ratio of the peak input value to its peak output value. However, if the amplifier circuit is designed incorrectly and the biasing Q-point set at the wrong position on the load line or apply too large an input signal, the resultant output signal may not be an exact reproduction of the original input signal waveform. i.e: distortion.

Common reasons why distortion is taking place:
- Amplification may not be taking place over the whole signal cycle due to incorrect biasing.
- The input may be too large, causing the amplifier to limit.
- The amplification may not be linear over the entire frequency range of inputs
Usually, the reason for these occurrences is because the amplifier power rating was much greater than the speaker was designed to handle. This situation is seen frequently in speakers used in DJ applications, where the program material contains continuous heavy bass signals. Even worse, often the amplifiers are overdriven into clipping due to the desire for even more bass.
Unfortunately, amplifier ratings and speaker power ratings as described by the respective manufacturers are not directly related to each other, and users often choose a speaker with a rating that appears to match the amplifier, when in fact the speaker is severely underrated. That is, an amplifier rated at 100 watts does not necessarily match a speaker rated at "100 watts".
POWER is the rate at which energy is converted from one form to another. The basic international unit of energy is called a JOULE and is defined as the amount of work energy performed by applying a certain amount of force (called a NEWTON) through a distance of one meter. The number of Joules of energy converted each second defines the amount of Power in WATTS. 1 Watt = 1 Joule/second; 5 watts = 5 Joules/second, etc. For instance, if your exercycle had a generator connected to a lamp, the brightness of the lamp would depend on how hard and fast you pedaled. The faster and harder you pedal, the more power you generate and the brighter will be the lamp.

The purpose of an amplifier and speaker system is to convert the raw electrical energy from the AC power line into acoustic (sound) energy that you can hear. During this process, energy is converted from matter (such as coal or gas) into heat, then mechanical energy, then (possibly through magnetic energy) into electricity. From your AC power outlet the electrical energy is controlled by the amplifier in order to build a weak electrical signal into a strong signal, which is fed to the speaker to create magnetic energy, which pushes the speaker cone back and forth (mechanical energy), which moves air molecules in order to convert some of that mechanical energy into sound energy. The more energy (per second) is converted into sound, the louder the sound will be. So volume depends on the amount of electrical POWER used to create the sound by the speaker.
There are a number of methods used to describe the power of an electrical signal. These methods are given names such as "instantaneous power", "average power", "RMS Power", "peak power", "Music power", "Program Power" and others.

In order to move the speaker cone in the complex manner required to accurately reproduce sounds, the power must be continually and rapidly varying. The power being used at any instant during the process is called "instantaneous power". However, since that is always changing, it is not useful for describing the capability of an amplifier or speaker.



Not fully correct.
The 2 primary causes of speaker failure:
- Continuous power output from the amplifier is greater than the speaker is designed to handle. This usually burns up the voice coil in the woofers.
- Excessive distortion caused by trying to get more volume (power) from the amplifier than it is capable of delivering. (Underpowered system.) This causes the amplifier to go into clipping, which produces excessive high frequency energy and causes the amplifier to go into clipping, which produces excessive high frequency energy and burns up the tweeters or horns.



Again, partly correct.
Distortion does come from the HU (amplifier), but as a direct result of the QUALITY of the HU amp.
An external amp is not really required. Why should it be? If the HU amp is of good quality, then you do not need an amp. All the external amp does (provided it is good quality), is eliminate / reduce the effects of a poorly designed HU amplifier, delivering "distortionless" output to the speakers.

If you want, I can give you the full scientific/ mathematical explanations to go with what I am saying.

One thing that i would say is that you are talking about theories that stand in a nice solid environment. A car is not this so the rules albeit similar are quite different in car.
These are rather difficult for most people to understand so we have to generalise a little and jump straight to the final point.

Ok your first statement about the car not being the ideal place for music.
This is 100% correct hence why it is not childs play to make an SQ set up in the confounds of a vehicle. Go and say that to the SQ competitors who spend years mastering staging to create a sound that rivals a home/venue audio system.
The point of it is to get the best that you can out of probably the worst environment that you can think of for music. Any old kid can lob a sub in the boot and run a set of coaxes of the HU so all their neighbours can here them in the next town. True enthusiasts put a lot off effort to containing the sound and reproducing music not noise.
Many people dont have large separated homes where they can listen to music at their desired levels so the car is the next best thing. Then you get the bug and it all go's over the top but at the end of the day most of us spend more time listening to music in our cars than at home or in Concerts/clubs.

Brins HU is not rated at 50w continuous power on music or RMS its around 20w RMS. 50 is the max power rating. 20 is not even taking into consideration, voltage, efficiency etc etc. So lets say its ends at around 14w after adding a sub and taking into consideration voltage drop.
This just isnt enough power to overcome the 70db road noise especially on speakers that average a sensitivity of low 80's.

The tendency of people in the car is too try and crank the volume on the HU. There arent actually a great deal of people out there that can tell the difference between distortion and music. So the distortion/clipping appears at around 3/4 volume so that 14w has now just become 10w.

I have the best HU without an External processor. When parked you can here that it is great quality but its a different story on road. We now have contrasting external frequencies at a similar level to your component speakers . This will probably distort at exactly the same level as the next HU.

So forget for a minute that aftermarket in car Component speakers are designed to run on an external power amp so thus have a lower sensitivity than the standard ones. We need an external amplifier to get over and cancel out the unwanted frequencies.

OK so the next point of blowing speakers.
We want to over power the speakers as the less we have to amplify the input signal the better quality sound we can produce.
Input levels fluctuate in car a lot more than in your average 240v applications. So this will be the main cause of clipping in car. People tend to amplify the input signal more than it needs too be. Over amped signal = clipped signal. So this is why a lot of people use a scope to check.

In most decent car audio speakers assuming the signal is clean pushing them beyond their X-max will snap the tinsel leads before the coil burns out.

So screw the science its all about actually understanding the products and environment that we are working with at least until you get to the highest competition level.

 

[g50245]

I disagree with you - what I said are not theories - they are scientific & mathematical facts, proven time and again by people a lot more clever than I am.

So screw the science its all about actually understanding the products and environment that we are working with at least until you get to the highest competition level.

Unfortunately, this is really the point. You can talk around it as much as you like, give daily real world examples and yes cars are different environments to houses, but at the end of the day the laws of physics are still the same. They do not change for cars.
It doesn't make a iota of difference whether you are dealing with 220v or 12v. The princliples are identical. If your amp is poorly designed (whether it is a 'home' or 'car' amp), you will get to a stage that clipping will occur. The poorer the amp, the quicker it distorts.

When 'audio power' is applied to a speaker, much of the energy is converted to magnetism and then to sound. However, a significant portion of it gets converted to heat in the wire of the voice coil. When too much power is applied, the heat damages the insulation of the wires. They come loose and start to rub inside the speaker, or the insulation starts to burn. This causes a buzz or rattle from the speaker. If the wire gets even hotter, it fails like a burnt-out lamp bulb filament and the speaker quits entirely. Since it is heat that causes the speaker failure, it is clear that it is the average power that is important in determining the failure limits of the speaker.

Consider the amplifier power rating. If you examine a specification sheet of an amplifier, you will see that they are usually rated in Average (RMS) power for an UNDISTORTED output. This is like swinging a weighted string so it almost touches the ceiling and the floor (sine wave example). Keep in mind that you can overdrive the amplifier into clipping. When this happens the power amplifier can produce up to TWICE AS MUCH power to the speakers as it is rated for. (Long technical explanation required - take my word for it.) So an amplifier rated at 100 watts clean can actually put out as much as 200 watts when heavily overdriven into severe distortion.

One other note about amplifier power ratings: The output power per channel usually depends on the IMPEDANCE of the speaker(s). For example, an amplifier might be rated at 100 watts per channel to an 8 ohm load and 190 watts to a 4 ohm load. Be sure you are comparing amp and speaker ratings for the same impedance value.

If you want to keep from smoking your speakers, you should consider the relationships between the speaker ratings and the maximum capability of the amplifier. The first thing to do is find out what form the speaker power rating is. If the speaker rating is clearly stated in RMS WATTS or AVERAGE POWER, you can compare it directly to the amplifier rating. If you are buying an amplifier rated at 100 watts/channel, a speaker rated at 100 watts RMS might be adequate. However, if there is a possibility that it might be overdriven, (such as with lots of bass or heavy metal) you might want to buy a speaker rated at up to twice the power output rating of the amplifier to allow for the distorted output power. (Distortion of bass notes is not as obvious as higher frequencies)

If the speakers are rated in Program Power or Music power, or if it is not clearly stated, you should also consider the additional rule of thumb that their average power rating is probably about half of the 'Program power' rating. If you are buying an amp rated at 100 watts clean (200 watts maximum), your speakers should have an RMS Average Power rating of 100 to 200 watts, so the Program power rating should be 200 to 400 watts each.

In practice, for an application where the program material contains high average power levels, (especially lots of bass) the speaker Program Power rating should be MORE than two times the amplifier RMS power rating. For maximum protection, select speakers with Program Power ratings of four times the amplifier power rating. Keep in mind that these rules are based on approximations and some assumptions, so no guarantee can be made that you still won't blow the speakers, but using these rules will greatly lessen the risk.
As mentioned previously, excessive distortion burns up tweeters. This happens when the amplifier does not have enough power to produce the desired volume and the user has set the volume controls too high. The amplifier goes into clipping (described before), the sound becomes harsh and distorted, and produces lots of high-frequency harmonic energy. A lot of this extra distortion power is contained in those high-frequency harmonics, which are directed to the horns or tweeters in the speaker. The result is a burnt tweeter voice coil.
There is much conflicting information available on the web that is based on the idea that distortion must be avoided at all costs. Some even go so far as to say the amplifier power rating should be two times the speaker's IEC power rating. The rationale is that speakers can normally handle brief pulses well in excess of their average power rating.
While this is true, such applications are typically found in home theater and studio monitoring, where the average power level of the program material is normally well below the speaker rating. It is NOT a safe practice for systems where high continuous average volume is required.
To avoid damage due to excessive distortion, ensure your system's amplifier power rating is great enough for the application to ensure that you have enough volume without overdriving it into distortion.
A properly designed amplifier/speaker system for sound reinforcement will have enough amplifier power that clipping distortion of the amplifier will never occur at any desired volume level, AND speakers that can handle continuous power near the rated output of the amplifier. Using an amplifier with twice the power rating of the speaker (or more) is inviting a trip to the repair shop.

Note: Music power" and "Program power" are rather nebulous terms that are often used in speaker ratings. They are explained by the manufacturers by saying that speakers are almost never used to produce pure tones (where average power is most easily measured) and that the power distribution in most music is erratic and of many frequencies. The description usually given is that a complex waveform is used to evaluate the power capacity of the speaker. No exact formula or other mathematical relationship appears to be available, but from research it appears that these ratings are approximately twice the equivalent average power.

 

[volxstu]

Re: punto speaker size

I understand what you mean but impendance rise tends to null speaker/ amp power ratings.
Then take into acount the class of amp. Your average multi channel amp is class A/B which can be just 50% efficient and up to 80% for class D and I believe even higher for Digital.

Also what you are saying is in theory a good rout to take. If inexperienced match speaker to amp ratings but only look at RMS figures. Often max power ratings are a marketing figure made up by the team over too many beers in the pub.

If you know a thing or two then you can generally throw these aside. Hence why I said if you can assure that the signal is clean so as to avoid rises in power due to clipped signal. If you can assure that your signal is clean thn you can massively over power a speaker especially if it is designed to dicipate heat from the coil effectively.
The mid bass speakers are rated at 200w RMS in my car. Now I can scope every stage of my system to ensure that inputs and outputs are clean so I will be giving them 360w RMS (not that I will taking the gain up enough to warrant it)

Sorry I went off on a tangent a little there lol. I was meant to say that in car these rises in power have much more serious implications than blowing the amp or speakers. The current in car is extremely high and the power cables are often pushed too their limits even on the amps rated current draw. Add a little bit of clip to that and you start too melt the cable, add a little more and set the area around the cable on fire and then kiss good bye too your car.

 

[Brin]

wooow take it easy guys goin all out commando on each other, at end of the day ther only speaker lol

 

[volxstu]

Oh there is a hell of a lot more to it than just speakers. I would read over everything and try and gleam as much from it as you can. A lot of good helpful points have been made that would be very useful to you.

 

[g50245]

Lets agree to disagree.... LOL I sound like a bloody politician
Good points on both sides. Maybe helpful to others looking at going this route