Technical Punto GT Strange Oil Levels

[dukeboys]

If Fingers99 sees this Im sure he can help as he has been pretty good so far but if anyone else knows what this is please reply

so yesterday I fitted a new cam, followers and carrier box and reshimmed it all perfect. treated it like a new cam using bedding in grease and topped up all 4 compartments with fresh oil then ran it at 2000rpm for 20mins then switched off. i havent driven the car so its not been put under any loads.

Removed my rocker cover today just to recheck the valve clearances from cold and straight away I was surprised by the different oil levels in the 4 compartments of the cambox.

im sure the levels should all be the same. The car is parked on the level.

For valves 1 and 2 - loads of oil as youd expect, valves 3 and 4 a bit less, valves 5 and 6 even less and the area around valves 7 and 8 was virtually non-existent......you can see the fresh oil I had started to pour in today (I was going to do a leak down check) but the dark oil is on the bottom where it was when i removed the cover.

is this signs of a worn oil pump not getting oil to the top end - I am thinking that maybe this is what was wrecking my previous cam and wearing the followers and carrier. at 2000rpm i had the full 3 bar pressure showing and never had issues with oil pressure before hot or cold.

Or is this caused simply because Ive not driven the car and put the engine under load yet and once I do that the oil pump will do its thing? if so just seems strange that oils gone to the far left compartment furthest away from the point of entry of the oil from the supply feed. also if it got as far as that compartment why didnt it reach other the furthest compartment. why feed 1 comparment and progressively less oil to the other 3 compartments???

I have a sore head from this.....the only thing that perhaps i'm thinking it might be is simply that the buckets are worn (they arent matched to this carrier box but i checked the clearances on all 8 and couldnt get a 0.05mm feeler gauge inside any of them.

 

[fingers99]

I'd not think it's an oil pump issue. When the engine is running the cambox will be filled with tiny droplets of oil as the cam followers churn up the oil and toss it about. It'll be fine!

 

[portland_bill]

Blocked oilway.

I guess the old cam was mostly worn at the "dry" end.

The cams turning will try to splash the oil out of these wells, but they are constantly topped up by the oil supply to the cams. When the lid is removed, all should be full. It appears that the oil supply is restricted and is not replenishing these wells as fast as it splashes out.

You need to identify how the oil arrives at the top of the head, and check/clean the oilways. Don't make them bigger.

Blockages here would be indicative of poor previous servicing. Might be an idea to put some flushing oil through it. After you've cleared the blockage.

 

[fingers99]

It could be a blockage -- and I'm not sure how oil is delivered on that engine. It's worth a check. On the FIRE engines all you get is a simple copper tube -- cheap enough to replace rather than clean.

For all that, I'm not sure I saw any evidence of wear (but then I didn't measure anything!) on the old buckets and cams.

Somewhere on the engine, in the cambox, will be a drain. The location of this may be a clue to why some galleries are fuller than others. (If there was no drain, the oil would eventually have to escape somewhere.)

 

[dukeboys]

i turned her over this morning then after letting it cool for a few hours took off the rocker cover and all 4 compartments are full! think im going through a strange old phase with the car at the moment. i am pleased it isnt looking like an oil pump - i guess it might still have a blocked or partially restricted oilway so i'll do a flush treatment and fresh oil and filter.

looking at an Uno 1301cc turbo oil gallery diagram if thats anything to go by the main feed comes up from the head to centre of the camshaft. there it runs along a hollow cam and is forced out into the carrier journels by small weep holes. i dont imagine the 1372cc changed that set up much.

off to watch some F1 now - sick of the car atm so will come back to it fresh tomorrow guys......thanks for the thoughts so far.......

 

[bluejohn125]

Just a thought - obviously you've basically got the old, established Tipo-type engine with no known weaknesses in this area.

Some people get int trouble by fitting the HG upside down or the wrong way round, similarly the valve guides. Also this engine grew a 12V head for the early Bravas / Bravos, and this had a lot of problems after time with the cam oil splash system getting blocked and the cam not getting lubed, becoming tappetty and wearing cams and followers out.

 

[blu73]

i think you are just being paranoid now. And that maybe where your car is looks level but really its only got to be an ever so slight angle for oil to pool on way or another over a period of hours. I think its fine.

 

[dukeboys]

Ha.now ive got some god awful chirrupping from one of the belts or tensioners....
Going to have another look today and will remove the aux belt to try and narrow the noise down to one belt or the other.

Should new tensioners spin freely by hand?
Ive got a spare INA cam belt tensioner pulley which is quiet but doesnt freely spin on.whether they loosen up after a bedding in period i dont know.will also checking the oil again....

 

[blu73]

check the belts aren't too tight.. My old GT had such a noise - turned out to be the waterpump. And here in lies a little problem with the GT and noises from tensioners or the pump and that is the aux belt drives the alternator and the water pump - so just removing the belt and running it means you need to not run it long as there will be no water being pumped around. And if the noise stops you still need to figure out if its the alternator, water pump or the tensioner. But if it still makes noise then it will probably be timing belt tensioner.

New tensioners don't spin really freely by hand no - if it has no play and feels smooth when turned then its probably ok

 

[dukeboys]

steering pump making the noise.
Think the engine is back on form though as thats not making any troubling noises now (new camshaft fine) but its allowed my ear to better find where the remaining noise is emanating from
Will swap the pump tomoro and she should be noise free. Finally after making her first noise in october 2012 i think ive sorted it all out now....