General Please help me choose my next car!

[KaZetec]

Hey!

Well after 5 years of ownership I reckon the time has come to replace the Ka. Don't worry our TwinAir 500 ain't going anywhere.

I've been researching a lot and have got it down to 2 cars. They're polar opposites! This is making it so hard to decide.



I'd get the 105 TwinAir Lounge. Or I'd get the Stepway Laureate.

The 500 we have now still gives me a grin every time. However the Stepway I'd choose will cost around £4500 less than the spec 500 I'd want! The Stepway petrol engine is nearly as fun as the TwinAir and the car can't be built using worse parts than the 500 (don't think that's possible lol). It is a very practical car. I do really like the look of it but I'm worried over time that'll diminish like it did with the Ka.

Any refreshing opinions?

Of course there is the new Twingo as well available to order in July.... Hmm!

 

[306maxi]

Twingo or Dacia I'd say

 

[frupi]

I'm starting to see more and more of Dacia's on the road these days. At the end of the day, Dacia is a division of Renault and in South Africa and Russia for instance, some models are badged as Renault's. I certainly wouldn't be put off from buying one especially at the prices you can buy them for new.

 

[Geddes]

If you intend on carrying passengers the Dacia has no room at all in the back. I looked when I was replacing the Spark (which is small). I could sit comfortably in the Spark but in the Dacia my shins were rammed against a bar in the seat back.
The Logan MCV based on the same platform has a longer wheelbase and more legroom.

 

[JTD_Liam]

£4500 is a lot of money at that end of the car market. I mean we're not talking about supercar money where £4500 pales into insignificance.

I'd probably give serious consideration to the Dacia tbh. Renaults TCE engine is meant to be pretty decent.

The 500 is a good car in its market, but the prices of Fiats seem to have risen a lot faster than component quality & other areas of the customer experience. At 500 prices the parts should be more expensive feeling than they are. I'd say going for a Panda TwinAir and saving a couple of grand over the 500 might be a way to go as a compromise between the 500 and Sandero, in terms of price and desirability.

Reports seem to suggest the Panda is a better drive and whilst quality seems similar, its position in the market as a regular city car rather than a fashion statement like the 500, Mini, DS3, means the pricing is more in-line with the overall quality of the car than that of the 500.

 

[Mercky]

£4500 is a lot of money at that end of the car market. I mean we're not talking about supercar money where £4500 pales into insignificance.

I'd probably give serious consideration to the Dacia tbh. Renaults TCE engine is meant to be pretty decent.

The 500 is a good car in its market, but the prices of Fiats seem to have risen a lot faster than component quality & other areas of the customer experience. At 500 prices the parts should be more expensive feeling than they are. I'd say going for a Panda TwinAir and saving a couple of grand over the 500 might be a way to go as a compromise between the 500 and Sandero, in terms of price and desirability.

Reports seem to suggest the Panda is a better drive and whilst quality seems similar, its position in the market as a regular city car rather than a fashion statement like the 500, Mini, DS3, means the pricing is more in-line with the overall quality of the car than that of the 500.

Agreed however I looked at the pandas here in Ireland and by the time you added in some extras to bring the spec on par to the 500s they were more expensive. A panda 4x4 is 20k euro in Ireland! A better drive though for sure in terms of ride etc. The 4x4 with the 105 TA might be a nice combo, I like the look of the twingo though and look forward to seeing one in the flesh

 

[Super Uwe]

£4500 is a lot of money at that end of the car market. I mean we're not talking about supercar money where £4500 pales into insignificance.

I'd probably give serious consideration to the Dacia tbh. Renaults TCE engine is meant to be pretty decent.

The 500 is a good car in its market, but the prices of Fiats seem to have risen a lot faster than component quality & other areas of the customer experience. At 500 prices the parts should be more expensive feeling than they are. I'd say going for a Panda TwinAir and saving a couple of grand over the 500 might be a way to go as a compromise between the 500 and Sandero, in terms of price and desirability.

Reports seem to suggest the Panda is a better drive and whilst quality seems similar, its position in the market as a regular city car rather than a fashion statement like the 500, Mini, DS3, means the pricing is more in-line with the overall quality of the car than that of the 500.

Quite agree Liam.

Our local dealer has an offer for the 500 1.2 Cult at the moment for £500 deposit and £189 per month. The total amount payable is £15,263.33 over four years once the balloon payment has been paid. I mean, that's just absolutely ridiculous for a 1.2 version. I dread to think what it would be for a 105hp TA version

We had the pleasure of driving a Clio 1.2 TCE about 5 years ago, have to say it was a really lovely engine even back then. Nice bit of extra power when you need it. I'm really looking forward to seeing the new Twingo with its rear engine; very intrigued to see how it will work out with interior space etc.

If you are looking at the Panda and aren't too bothered about the 4x4 functionality, I guess the TA Trekking would also be a good shout? Comes with a few more standard options and has the look of a 4x4 Panda too.

Other than that, how about the 500L? Certainly a lot of discounts available, and if you buy a nearly new one, you are bound to save an absolute bucketload. And it has the 105hp TA engine version available too.

 

[zanes]

Suzuki swift, probably in sz3 trim unless you want cruise control etc. Or the sport if you want a genuinely fun warm hatch with silly levels of kit.

Think Suzuki are still doing their "vat free".

Read some reviews and have a test drive (not sure where your nearest dealer is, but Swindon and cirencester pebley beach are great). You might just be surprised. Far Vetter car than the 500 and a warranty (proper 3 years, which really is a minimum these days).

 

[RUI]

This shows how bad fiat 500's are. Even people that are on the fiat forum are telling you to buy something from another company.

I think the 500 is a great car that supported by the worst dealers.

 

[zanes]

This shows how bad fiat 500's are. Even people that are on the fiat forum are telling you to buy something from another company.

I think the 500 is a great car that supported by the worst dealers.

In fairness I reckon its a little more subtle than that.

Firstly, the dealers. Yeah, they're not great but I do think sometimes they're hamstrung by the level of info and help they get from Fiat UK (although when one rang me out of hours to argue how much petrol I'd left in the courtesy car after a service i was distinctly unimpressed).

Secondly the car. I do wonder sometimes how long fiat intended to produce the 500 for. maybe a few years- get a bit more out the old panda platform, make a good sack of cash quickly and get fiat talked about.

I'm sure if someone had stood up in the planning meetings and said 6 years down the line demand would still be strong and they'd be selling for near on list with crap finance they'd have been laughed at. Maybe that's why the model range is now slightly mad.

Interestingly enough, given the op, that's what ford found when they launched the original ka- they reckoned on 10k cars over a few years before a quiet retirement, a toe in the water in and getting to know the city car market. That ran for a decade in the end and by the end the fiesta mk3 underpinnings were painfully obvious- particularly wrt corrosion. I hope the 500 doesn't go a similar way.

And that's my last point: when launched the 500 started at just over 8 grand iirc. At the time a bit smaller than comparably priced cars but the interior/spec was a step above. Now prices have gone nuts and other cars are better equipped with comparable interiors. Case in point: my old car is up for what my in-laws paid for their ex motability 3 year old focus estate.

Fair play to FIAT for still being able to shift them like this.

 

[Murano16v]

Twingo does look interesting, although with some negatives. To check engine oil requires removing a heat shield and then removing a set of screws from the metal panel that is the engine cover. Driving position is quite high due to a double floor to accommodate batteries in a possible electric version, rear windows hinge outwards instead of winding down. Got this all from here

http://www.lefigaro.fr/automobile/2...RTFIG00349-renault-twingo-premiere-sortie.php

I agree that the 500 is in general supported by poor dealers. The same applied to the Mito, a great car in the right spec, but awful dealers.

Just returned from Majorca where I hired a new Peugeot 208. A woeful car. Wallows all over the place at the hint of a corner, crap gearbox, poor driving position, messy interior design. Makes the 500 appear brilliant.

 

[jrkitching]

Suzuki swift

:yeahthat:

A capable, no-nonsense car that's built out of far better parts than the 500/Panda.

 

[zanes]

:yeahthat:

A capable, no-nonsense car that's built out of far better parts than the 500/Panda.

Forgot to mention you should be able to get 0% finance out of the dealer too.

 

[44sunsets]

The new Twingo looks heavily inspired by the 500. If I wasn't so happy with my 500, I'd probably be looking at the Renault.

 

[JTD_Liam]

People are paying the prices commanded by Fiat so you can't blame Fiat if they keep charging what they do for the 500. I mean, look at the price of the Mini - it might have a better quality interior but of the 6 that mates have owned (granted not the latest one), only 1 hasn't had problems - and we're not talking a £20 drop link, these were head gaskets going, clutches replaced, camshaft trouble, so they're arguably worse than Fiat.

Where I have criticism for Fiat is that they haven't used their increased profit to improve the customer care. Some dealers are as good as you could wish for, but they don't seem managed by Fiat UK, so how good they are depends on how good the dealer can be arsed to be. That's not how it should be - Fiat should ensure minimum standards & enforce them - they're not the poor selling brand they were 10 years ago so must be more appealing to dealers than they were. Therefore they can afford to get rid of the poor performers if they don't respond to warnings. However, very little of this seems to happen.

This, along with the haphazard approach to warranty and goodwill claims is what lets the Fiat brand down more. Far more than the cars themselves.

 

[auditt]

I dont think any 500 is worth more than 12 grand,certainly not 15.A1 or Mini a better choice.

 

[frupi]

People are paying the prices commanded by Fiat so you can't blame Fiat if they keep charging what they do for the 500......

Well some people are paying the prices commanded by Fiat, i.e. those that insist on driving a car out of the showroom that they've specifically ordered on request with the colours/options they want. Clearly doing this will command Fiat's prices. I can understand why people want a car completely to their spec and to their credit, if they can afford to pay the price, then I say 'crack on', but it isn't something I would do for a car so small as the 500.

I've found that buying a new pre-reg is less financially destructive. I mean, the TA I bought last year, I paid £3k less for it than had I bought it as a customer ordered vehicle. So I haven't borne the initial depreciation. It was the same with our previous POP too where I saved at least £2.5k buying a four month old car from a reseller. And for those people who chirp that I'll lose out when it comes to selling or trading in, well that wasn't the experience I had when I traded in our old POP for the 'new pre-reg' TA. At the end of the day after a very healthy PX deal on effectively a third owner (one Fleet company and the reseller garage) car, I got a showroom delivery miles only TA from a Fiat dealer for £4150. There are some cracking deals to be had out there if one is prepared to put the effort in.

 

[zanes]

Any update OP?

 

[KaZetec]

Any update OP?

Decided to hold off until the Twingo is available. I'll then compare it to the 500.

Had too many doubts of regretting the Stepway so have avoided it!

Have a gut feeling I'm going to fall for the Twingo, especially with the rear engine & rear drive tugging at my heart. It's pretty much on paper what the 500 should have been.