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Technical Phonic reset

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Technical Phonic reset

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Oaktree

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Oct 19, 2013
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Hi guys,
I’m looking for some help please
I’ve recently changed my cambelt and have literally been pulling my hair out due to the misfire at 50mph that clears when reset.
I’ve had the cambelt on and off 5 times.
I’ve used the correct locking tools and even checked the cam position with a dti

I’ve now learnt that the problem is due to the phonic reset required
I’m in Tadworth Surrey if anyone can help me
I’ve tried resetting it with a snap on scanner however it doesn’t have the capability.
It drives fine otherwise so I can bring it to you
Please help
Thanks
Phil
 
Reset is NOT required at all (overrated function, but clueless people are absolutely obsessed with it).
If you have proper timing (of course, you "forgot" to mention engine type/version), phonic wheel is not a problem (unless it's mechanically damaged, has "runout" etc.). Problem is somewhere else...
 
Normally, I would agree with you on a lot of vehicles
However, believe me when I tell you I used the setting bar in the camshaft
I use the locking tool for the crankshaft
I also slackened off the cam pulley
I also use the DTI
To make sure the cam was sitting exactly in the centre of the setting bar
I did all this because after five failed attempts to get the timing correct
I wanted to make sure that I had it absolutely spot on
If what you say is true
The only logical explanation is that the timing was set slightly out before I change the belt
 
Oaktree said:
Normally, I would agree with you on a lot of vehicles
However, believe me when I tell you I used the setting bar in the camshaft
I use the locking tool for the crankshaft
I also slackened off the cam pulley
I also use the DTI
To make sure the cam was sitting exactly in the centre of the setting bar
I did all this because after five failed attempts to get the timing correct
I wanted to make sure that I had it absolutely spot on
If what you say is true
The only logical explanation is that the timing was set slightly out before I change the belt
Click to expand...
So, with the cam belt fitted and fully tensioned and crank locking tool installed, do you find the cam locking bar slides into place on the end of the camshaft nice and easily? If this is so then, mechanically, there's only one other factor which hasn't been taken into account and that is that the cast in key, which is part of the crankshaft pulley, might have sheared allowing the pulley to turn on the crankshaft. This is not all that common but does sometimes happen, especially if a cheap after market pulley has been fitted at some time. To check take either No1 and No2 or No3 and No4 spark plugs out and, using a suitable rod, check that with the crank locking tool in place, both pistons are half way up or down the bore - depending on how you like to think of it. You need to be very careful to take precise measurements. As the locking tools fit the pulley itself and camshaft they won't pick up a sheared crankshaft pulley key.

If all seems to be ok and the engine is running well with no obvious misfires and, especially if misfire codes are stored? but you're seeing no obvious signs of misfires taking place when driving, then Probably a Phonic Wheel relearn is needed. If this turns out to be the case doing the relearn will have no effect on how the car runs - because the timing is in fact correct, it's just that the ECU doesn't recognise this - Grande Punto PL seems to have a "bee in his bonnet" about this whole subject and to some extent he's correct, you could run around with the car like this and cause no damage. The problem is that with the EML "highjacked" by this then you're not going to be alerted if some other malfunction occurs. It's likely also that if the EML ramains lit you'll fail MOT. So, if everything else is obviously Ok, I'd be doing the Phonic Wheel relearn just to put the light out if for no other reason.
 
Look in 500 and panda sections and you tube. There is a procedure to learn phonic wheel by reving engine , when eml flashing and engine at normal temp
 
Pugglt Auld Jock said:
So, with the cam belt fitted and fully tensioned and crank locking tool installed, do you find the cam locking bar slides into place on the end of the camshaft nice and easily? If this is so then, mechanically, there's only one other factor which hasn't been taken into account and that is that the cast in key, which is part of the crankshaft pulley, might have sheared allowing the pulley to turn on the crankshaft. This is not all that common but does sometimes happen, especially if a cheap after market pulley has been fitted at some time. To check take either No1 and No2 or No3 and No4 spark plugs out and, using a suitable rod, check that with the crank locking tool in place, both pistons are half way up or down the bore - depending on how you like to think of it. You need to be very careful to take precise measurements. As the locking tools fit the pulley itself and camshaft they won't pick up a sheared crankshaft pulley key.

If all seems to be ok and the engine is running well with no obvious misfires and, especially if misfire codes are stored? but you're seeing no obvious signs of misfires taking place when driving, then Probably a Phonic Wheel relearn is needed. If this turns out to be the case doing the relearn will have no effect on how the car runs - because the timing is in fact correct, it's just that the ECU doesn't recognise this - Grande Punto PL seems to have a "bee in his bonnet" about this whole subject and to some extent he's correct, you could run around with the car like this and cause no damage. The problem is that with the EML "highjacked" by this then you're not going to be alerted if some other malfunction occurs. It's likely also that if the EML ramains lit you'll fail MOT. So, if everything else is obviously Ok, I'd be doing the Phonic Wheel relearn just to put the light out if for no other reason.
Click to expand...
Hi there thanks for this.
The car drives absolutely fine until it picks up a fault and the management lights starts flashing.
It then goes into some sort of de rate however flicking the ignition on and off clears it immediately.
I will check the crank pulley tomorrow and let you know my findings.
It just seems strange that it was perfect before the belt change.
In answer to your other question the cam tool does fit in freely with the crank shaft locked. It is smack bang in the middle.
The phonic pulley must only be a knats cock out if any because it only picks up the fault around 40-50 mph.
I’ll report back tomorrow
Thank you
 
Oaktree said:
Hi there thanks for this.
The car drives absolutely fine until it picks up a fault and the management lights starts flashing.
It then goes into some sort of de rate however flicking the ignition on and off clears it immediately.
I will check the crank pulley tomorrow and let you know my findings.
It just seems strange that it was perfect before the belt change.
In answer to your other question the cam tool does fit in freely with the crank shaft locked. It is smack bang in the middle.
The phonic pulley must only be a knats cock out if any because it only picks up the fault around 40-50 mph.
I’ll report back tomorrow
Thank you
Click to expand...
If the fault is intermittent then it is almost certainly not the crank pulley at fault. If misaligned the effect would be there all the time. So difficult to say without being able to get my hands on the car, but it's beginning to sound more like an electrical fault, maybe as "simple" as a faulty connector or break in a wire somewhere?
 
Pugglt Auld Jock said:
If the fault is intermittent then it is almost certainly not the crank pulley at fault. If misaligned the effect would be there all the time. So difficult to say without being able to get my hands on the car, but it's beginning to sound more like an electrical fault, maybe as "simple" as a faulty connector or break in a wire somewhere?
Click to expand...
Too late I’ve removed it already!
The key is still intact and the sensor ring is in perfect condition.
It happens in exactly the same conditions every time and if the ignition key is flicked will happily drive at 70 mph for hours.
Makes me think that it can’t be a wire.
It seems to be contingent to a certain speed and a certain loading.
 

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AnthonyH said:
I think its a different fault unrelated to the timing chain. Two problems at once are always the worst.

You need to check the engine codes with Multiecuscan.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Beware using a cheap generic scanner/code reader. Fiats seem quite "picky" about what equipment you use. There are quite a number of posts on here from people who have used budget scanner/code readers and got erroneous codes reported.
 
The pulley
Oaktree said:
Maybe this is it
Click to expand...

Everyone interested in this thread should watch the video.

It appears that the crank sprocket and the crank pulley are loose on the crank nose. Allowing around 10 or 15 degrees rotational slop.
 
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