General Panda100hp potential new purchase

[Beefcake4000]

Hi all,

Apologies This has undoubtedly been asked a million times but I can never find a relevant thread. I'm looking at a 100hp Panda on Friday, always wanted one, old enough to be stupid enough to buy one. I have a VW T5 so this is a run around, school run, shopping, commuting car.

Its pretty cheap, definitely not showroom condition but not rusted through and mechanically good with plenty of history. Its cheap enough to take a punt and really I have another vehicle if it all goes South. Having said all that I don't need or want a money pit, from the reading I have done online, aside from rust they seem pretty robust, is there anything really look for on an inspection?

 

[koalar]

Fiat spared no expenses on the suspension

Nearly every part of it was unique to the 100hp

Most parts are now no longer made or if you can find them stupidly expensive

At this time in its life it's likely to have alternative, cheaper parts

If you want one to handle like the original it's not cheap

Rust inside the sills is common, normally if there's any bubbling down the seam where the outer seam meets the floor pan, you can almost guarantee the inner sills, c post, and jacking points have rotted away

Not cheap to pay some to repair properly £450-750 per side

A lot will be covered up with a £50 patch panel


@irc has more knowledge of these car as they have run them for some time

 

[Beefcake4000]

@koathanks for the repsonse, will have a good look at the underside with a screwdriver!

 

[irc]

As @koalar said above, putting one back to completely original suspension can be pricey if its had incorrect parts fitted (either for price/availability or for "upgrades").
An original one is a joy to drive. Some people insist that they can "improve" them by changing the suspension or putting on really sticky tyres, but I think perhaps they are missing the point. Or trying to make up for some deficiency in driving style/skill. However, each to their own, I'm not judging anyone.

Some thoughts below, not trying to be negative, or put anyone off getting one. Just think its better for a potential owner to be aware of the 100HP-specific problems that can arise, on top of the "normal" Panda ones.

Sills can disintegrate behind the sill covers, some do, some don't. Expensive to sort properly. Squeeze the rear end of the sill. If it feels weak or sounds "crispy" then expect welding to figure in your plans.
Rear beams were crazy expensive, then unobtainable, now (apparently) they are being remanufactured.
Some coolant pipes are unique, and are occasionally unobtainable, until a new batch is manufactured. It is possible to "frankenstein" pipes from the 1.2, 500 and others to keep it going, but it doesn't look "factory". Radiator is unique and is often unobtainable.
Steering wheel cover blisters and eventually disintegrates. Can be re-covered or swapped with a better one (or some like to fit one from a 500, although I prefer not)
Driver's seat back cushion foam often cracks, making it look lopsided and feel uncomfortable. It is possible to swap good parts over from a passenger seat to fix (or some like to fit seats from a 500, again I prefer not).
Gearbox can be "baulky", often in 3rd, especially if it has been regularly driven over-enthusiastically from cold.
Wheels are often more 50p-shaped than they should be. Shows up as vibration.
Front bumper is unique, rare, expensive, often cracked. There are some really sub-standard repro ones about which don't hold paint, can't be repaired and are not dimensionally correct. All body kit parts are unique and hard to get hold of, and are often ruined by people "fixing" them with screws rather then finding the correct clips.
Tailgate glass is unique, and needs to have holes in for the 100HP rear spoiler. Replacements appear to be unobtainable, or possibly special order only.
Rear lights are unique to the 100HP but sometimes get swapped with "normal" panda ones.

 

[Beefcake4000]

As @koalar said above, putting one back to completely original suspension can be pricey if its had incorrect parts fitted (either for price/availability or for "upgrades").
An original one is a joy to drive. Some people insist that they can "improve" them by changing the suspension or putting on really sticky tyres, but I think perhaps they are missing the point. Or trying to make up for some deficiency in driving style/skill. However, each to their own, I'm not judging anyone.

Some thoughts below, not trying to be negative, or put anyone off getting one. Just think its better for a potential owner to be aware of the 100HP-specific problems that can arise, on top of the "normal" Panda ones.

Sills can disintegrate behind the sill covers, some do, some don't. Expensive to sort properly. Squeeze the rear end of the sill. If it feels weak or sounds "crispy" then expect welding to figure in your plans.
Rear beams were crazy expensive, then unobtainable, now (apparently) they are being remanufactured.
Some coolant pipes are unique, and are occasionally unobtainable, until a new batch is manufactured. It is possible to "frankenstein" pipes from the 1.2, 500 and others to keep it going, but it doesn't look "factory". Radiator is unique and is often unobtainable.
Steering wheel cover blisters and eventually disintegrates. Can be re-covered or swapped with a better one (or some like to fit one from a 500, although I prefer not)
Driver's seat back cushion foam often cracks, making it look lopsided and feel uncomfortable. It is possible to swap good parts over from a passenger seat to fix (or some like to fit seats from a 500, again I prefer not).
Gearbox can be "baulky", often in 3rd, especially if it has been regularly driven over-enthusiastically from cold.
Wheels are often more 50p-shaped than they should be. Shows up as vibration.
Front bumper is unique, rare, expensive, often cracked. There are some really sub-standard repro ones about which don't hold paint, can't be repaired and are not dimensionally correct. All body kit parts are unique and hard to get hold of, and are often ruined by people "fixing" them with screws rather then finding the correct clips.
Tailgate glass is unique, and needs to have holes in for the 100HP rear spoiler. Replacements appear to be unobtainable, or possibly special order only.
Rear lights are unique to the 100HP but sometimes get swapped with "normal" panda ones.

@irc thank you for the response, lots of information there. The sills are my biggest worry bead, suspension is potentially a big concern. What should standard look like? Assuming the go-to fix is coilovers of some non-descript origin? Can the original shocks be rebuilt?

 

[irc]

@irc thank you for the response, lots of information there. The sills are my biggest worry bead, suspension is potentially a big concern. What should standard look like? Assuming the go-to fix is coilovers of some non-descript origin? Can the original shocks be rebuilt?

Sills are a biggie and can be hard to inspect without removing the sill covers - I've just broken a 56plate scrap 100HP for parts which had a really hard life, 130k miles, thrashed to death with PERFECT sills. An endoscope inspection inside the sills shows almost no surface rust inside.
A friend has an almost perfect 07 plate in the same colour with both sills totally shot, including inner sills. The outer sills are almost non-existent for the rear 300mm or so. He's spending about £800 getting them fixed properly (that's without paint, but he is a paint sprayer by trade).

Inspect yours as carefully as the vendor will allow.

Originals dampers can't be rebuilt. Magneti Marelli original spec dampers are being advertised in a couple of places at the moment including Shop4parts, at very good prices.

If you really want your 100HP to drive as FIAT intended, use the correct 100HP springs, top mounts and front damper "buffers" too. And make sure you have the correct rear springs and "buffers" (a.k.a. bump stops) fitted, as they truly do make a difference.

But once again, not trying to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't do with their car - its a personal choice.

 

[koalar]

Some things like top mount you can't tell easily

Here a few differences

 

[koalar]

Check the Aircon is working properly, broken flaps is common

Fixable, but a right pain

 

[Beefcake4000]

Thanks gents, really appreciate the time and clarity in the responses.

 

[jrkitching]

so this is a run around, school run, shopping, commuting car.

In which case, you'd be far better off buying a 1.2. Most of the parts you're likely to need will be much cheaper, and there's more chance of finding one that still has some useful life left in it.

A 1.2 of similar age will likely cost you a lot less in repairs.

Unless you can do all the maintenance yourself, definitely don't buy a 100HP.

I don't need or want a money pit

The chances of a cheap 100HP being a money pit are substantial, due to the large number of 100HP specific wearing parts which are now either unobtainable or costly. Even the newest 100HP will be 15 years old now and almost all that are left are suffering from too many owners driving them too hard with too little maintenance. They were a lot of fun for the money when new, and tremendous value (the last ones went for £7999 when you'd pay 10k for a base 1.2 500), but they weren't built to last this long - Fiat essentially stopped supporting the 100HP years ago..

The very few good ones won't be cheap, and won't keep their collectable value for long if used as a daily driver. The rest are end of life cars being kept running on a shoestring and a prayer.

 

[koalar]

the last ones went for £7999

Just for comparison a completely original sorted rust free car sold last year for 5K can't remember the year, recent clutch, timing belt, tyres.exhaust so on

There's cheap rusty molested examples about

But there's little choice between the two extremes

Out of nearly 2K sold
There's only just over 1K left on the road

And that without this year's 1st quarter data