General Panda Problems

[Gooseman]

First of all, since finding this forum yesterday I have picked up so much great information from some of the posts and replies here.

By way of introduction I'm pretty darn good when it comes to all things IT related but pretty damn hopeless when it comes to mechanical stuff.

I bought a used Panda 4x4 diesel (2013) on Friday and have discovered numerous problems, namely:

1. Blue&Me module failure. Looks fairly easy to rectify and I've ordered the ECU ELM and adapter cable so will pay for a MultiEcuScan licence once I know I can connect successfully.

2. One or more of the front wheel bearings is whining. Does anyone know how much I should expect to pay to get both changed?

3. The gearbox cruches slightly when changing to third gear. It's not that bad so I can probably live with it, but is the only solution to change the gearbox?

BTW, once I've got the MultiEcuScan kit working I'll add myself to the list of embers who can do PROXI alignment stuff in my local area (for free of course, because we're all here to help each other out).

 

[steveras57]

First of all, since finding this forum yesterday I have picked up so much great information from some of the posts and replies here.

By way of introduction I'm pretty darn good when it comes to all things IT related but pretty damn hopeless when it comes to mechanical stuff.

I bought a used Panda 4x4 diesel (2013) on Friday and have discovered numerous problems, namely:

1. Blue&Me module failure. Looks fairly easy to rectify and I've ordered the ECU ELM and adapter cable so will pay for a MultiEcuScan licence once I know I can connect successfully.

2. One or more of the front wheel bearings is whining. Does anyone know how much I should expect to pay to get both changed?

3. The gearbox cruches slightly when changing to third gear. It's not that bad so I can probably live with it, but is the only solution to change the gearbox?

BTW, once I've got the MultiEcuScan kit working I'll add myself to the list of embers who can do PROXI alignment stuff in my local area (for free of course, because we're all here to help each other out).

Hello and welcome!MES will help a lot well worth the outlay!
wheel bearings about £40 each + a couple of hours garage labour at a local shop at about £100 an hour id guess so about £300 to do both fronts
Take it is only THIRD gear when kit crunches? might be worth replacing the gearbox oil and using a thick one such as ep140 weight along with a tube of molyslip to see if that helps at all before considering replacing the gearbox! id advise against using a second hand e- bay special! better to get one from a reconditioning specialist, should come with a warranty for either time or mileage!.
good luck with it all keep us posted ( by the way posting into the panda specific forum will get you faster more informed responses!) very knowledgeable guys over there!( panda nut! ).

 

[Gooseman]

Hello and welcome!MES will help a lot well worth the outlay!
wheel bearings about £40 each + a couple of hours garage labour at a local shop at about £100 an hour id guess so about £300 to do both fronts
Take it is only THIRD gear when kit crunches? might be worth replacing the gearbox oil and using a thick one such as ep140 weight along with a tube of molyslip to see if that helps at all before considering replacing the gearbox! id advise against using a second hand e- bay special! better to get one from a reconditioning specialist, should come with a warranty for either time or mileage!.
good luck with it all keep us posted ( by the way posting into the panda specific forum will get you faster more informed responses!) very knowledgeable guys over there!( panda nut! ).

Thanks Steve, I'll give that a go for the gearbox.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Hello and welcome!MES will help a lot well worth the outlay!
wheel bearings about £40 each + a couple of hours garage labour at a local shop at about £100 an hour id guess so about £300 to do both fronts
Take it is only THIRD gear when kit crunches? might be worth replacing the gearbox oil and using a thick one such as ep140 weight along with a tube of molyslip to see if that helps at all before considering replacing the gearbox! id advise against using a second hand e- bay special! better to get one from a reconditioning specialist, should come with a warranty for either time or mileage!.
good luck with it all keep us posted ( by the way posting into the panda specific forum will get you faster more informed responses!) very knowledgeable guys over there!( panda nut! ).

Sorry steveras but I don't think putting a 140 weight oil into a 'box which normally runs quite a thin oil would be a good solution at all. Also, it's likely that the gear selection is crunching due to wear on the syncro cone?

Then there's Molyslip - which has it's uses I agree, I'm a great fan of moly grease used in appropriate places - but it's main claim to fame is that it's a friction reducer and synchros work by friction, so, sorry but I think not only may it have little effect but it may actually make things worse.

Having said all that, Gooseman, if you decide to try it and get a good outcome I'll happily grovel in front of steveras and beg his forgiveness.

However, this car is new to you so you don't know what oil is in the box right now? could have been replaced with the wrong oil at some time? Therefore what might be well worth doing is draining the box and refilling it with exactly the right oil, as specified by FIAT (check the Shop4parts website if you don't know or just give them a ring, they're very approachable and helpful). Other than that I guess the box probably needs a strip down which makes a quality reconditioned box the best bet - Or you could learn how to double de-clutch as used to be done in the days before gearboxes had any synchro.

 

[Gooseman]

Sorry steveras but I don't think putting a 140 weight oil into a 'box which normally runs quite a thin oil would be a good solution at all. Also, it's likely that the gear selection is crunching due to wear on the syncro cone?

Then there's Molyslip - which has it's uses I agree, I'm a great fan of moly grease used in appropriate places - but it's main claim to fame is that it's a friction reducer and synchros work by friction, so, sorry but I think not only may it have little effect but it may actually make things worse.

Having said all that, Gooseman, if you decide to try it and get a good outcome I'll happily grovel in front of steveras and beg his forgiveness.

However, this car is new to you so you don't know what oil is in the box right now? could have been replaced with the wrong oil at some time? Therefore what might be well worth doing is draining the box and refilling it with exactly the right oil, as specified by FIAT (check the Shop4parts website if you don't know or just give them a ring, they're very approachable and helpful). Other than that I guess the box probably needs a strip down which makes a quality reconditioned box the best bet - Or you could learn how to double de-clutch as used to be done in the days before gearboxes had any synchro.

Thanks 'Jock'. Whoever is right, it's good to read different thoughts on the matter.

I vaguely remember the days of the double de-clutch, but by the time I learned to drive we didn't have to do that anymore.

Fortunately, it's only a very slight grind, so until it gets worse I'll probably just put up with it, or deal with it in the traditional way of turning the stereo volume up!

 

[rmjbn1]

Funnily enough my 169 2WD Panda used to crunch going into third when I got it.

It's had two oil changes, a new clutch, input shaft bearing and seal, and some combination of those has seemingly fixed it!

But I would guess unlikely to be a major transmission fault.

I would also support Jock's advice to drain and refill with the specified oil.

I found this info interesting from Guy at Opie Oils, that some older transmissions prefer GL4 over the more modern GL5 spec as GL5 can be too slippy, resulting in crunching. Maybe something to try?

gear oil spec,s | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

Hi, Can any one on here, tell me the right spec gear box oil for 1,2 petrol panda 07 reg. Reason i ask, been to different outlets and given different spec,s (not glasses)75/80 /75/90 also75/85. Some say semi synthetic some say fully synthetic . Haynes manual total rubbish...Thanks now::bang:

www.fiatforum.com

 

[steveras57]

So the composite of all the opinions so far appears to be!
Change the oil for the "correct" grade!- if that dont work then try my suggestion
if that dont work either A)- live with it or B) change the gearbox and clutch!
good luck with whatever you choose!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

So the composite of all the opinions so far appears to be!
Change the oil for the "correct" grade!- if that dont work then try my suggestion
if that dont work either A)- live with it or B) change the gearbox and clutch!
good luck with whatever you choose!

Some time ago it was actually harmful to put a GL5 rated oil in a gearbox designed for GL4 even if it's viscosity spec was the same. It's complicated what it actually did but basically it caused erosion of the softer (yellow) metals - so mainly bushes and, critically, synchros - I've read up a lot about it and it seems to be the Extreme Pressure additive chemicals which were the problem. The manufacturer's seem to have modified the formulations so that now it's not supposed to be a problem however, Are they all compliant? I wouldn't risk putting anything other than the actual manufacturer's specified oil in any of my gearboxes. What I do know is that if you've put the old type GL5 in a GL4 spec box you can't reverse the damage by draining it and putting GL4 in because you can't replace the metal which has been leached away by the "wrong" oil. The GL5 oils do contain much more effective extreme pressure additives so what was said above about synchro action maybe being partially defeated if you use "more slippy" GL5 in a box designed for GL4 may be true. If you've done so and change back to the GL4 pretty quickly then you'd probably be all right. But once the wear has taken place only new synchros will sort it. You've then got to worry whether there are yellow metal bushes, maybe selector forks too? in the box which might have been damaged too? If I was faced with this I'd therefore go for a new/rebuilt box when the synchro action/inaction became too much of a problem.

 

[steveras57]

Some time ago it was actually harmful to put a GL5 rated oil in a gearbox designed for GL4 even if it's viscosity spec was the same. It's complicated what it actually did but basically it caused erosion of the softer (yellow) metals - so mainly bushes and, critically, synchros - I've read up a lot about it and it seems to be the Extreme Pressure additive chemicals which were the problem. The manufacturer's seem to have modified the formulations so that now it's not supposed to be a problem however, Are they all compliant? I wouldn't risk putting anything other than the actual manufacturer's specified oil in any of my gearboxes. What I do know is that if you've put the old type GL5 in a GL4 spec box you can't reverse the damage by draining it and putting GL4 in because you can't replace the metal which has been leached away by the "wrong" oil. The GL5 oils do contain much more effective extreme pressure additives so what was said above about synchro action maybe being partially defeated if you use "more slippy" GL5 in a box designed for GL4 may be true. If you've done so and change back to the GL4 pretty quickly then you'd probably be all right. But once the wear has taken place only new synchros will sort it. You've then got to worry whether there are yellow metal bushes, maybe selector forks too? in the box which might have been damaged too? If I was faced with this I'd therefore go for a new/rebuilt box when the synchro action/inaction became too much of a problem.

Well thats extremely complicated and quite worrying -!like so many things today its been made more difficult and extreme by "advancing?) technology!, shame i remember the days when it was basically 20/50 in the engine and ep90 in the gearbox! guess we wont see that again!.

As far as the OP is concerned best bet now might be to just leave it until the gearchange becomes completely knackered then get a new box!! -so much for cheep and simple cars eh! .

 

[porta]

Wehn I (wife) had the 169 climbing I got the garage to do oil changes on the engine (before end of warranty) and box, wehn I got the invoice I told them to drain the box and put the correct oil in as, as specified by Fiat, it was critical in the 4x4 box.

 

[steveras57]

Wehn I (wife) had the 169 climbing I got the garage to do oil changes on the engine (before end of warranty) and box, wehn I got the invoice I told them to drain the box and put the correct oil in as, as specified by Fiat, it was critical in the 4x4 box.

I'm sure thats true! bit of a palaver for the OP,s cooking panda though aint it!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Well thats extremely complicated and quite worrying -!like so many things today its been made more difficult and extreme by "advancing?) technology!, shame i remember the days when it was basically 20/50 in the engine and ep90 in the gearbox! guess we wont see that again!.

As far as the OP is concerned best bet now might be to just leave it until the gearchange becomes completely knackered then get a new box!! -so much for cheep and simple cars eh! .

Because there's not a lot of money involved, especially if you do it yourself - which any competent DIY person should manage? - I'd be doing a gearbox oil change. The car is about 12 years old now so even if it's still on the original oil (many cars go their whole life without a transmission oil change which I think is just plain "silly") it will benefit from having new oil in there. However I'd be doing it in the full knowledge that it may not give any improvement in the problem.

 

[JayAre]

I'm sure thats true! bit of a palaver for the OP,s cooking panda though aint it!

not sure I’d call a 312/9 Panda 4x4 “cooking”…

 

[Panda IIs]

not sure I’d call a 312/9 Panda 4x4 “cooking”…

Just asking; @Gooseman do we know which model you have?

 

[JayAre]

Just asking; @Gooseman do we know which model you have?

I bought a used Panda 4x4 diesel (2013) on Friday and have discovered numerous problems

 

[steveras57]

not sure I’d call a 312/9 Panda 4x4 “cooking”…

Opinions differ! no offense to anyone intended! indeed i consider my own 500 to be "cooking" but it serves its purpose well enough!

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Wehn I (wife) had the 169 climbing I got the garage to do oil changes on the engine (before end of warranty) and box, wehn I got the invoice I told them to drain the box and put the correct oil in as, as specified by Fiat, it was critical in the 4x4 box.

On the older 169 4x4 (with etc 1.2 petrol engine), the gearbox also housed the transfer gears that connect to the propshaft in a unit fitted to the end of the gearbox and sharing its oil. That's why it was important to use the right one.

The same is true for the newer 312 4x4 when it has the TwinAir engine, as again the transfer gears (also called idler gears or PTU) are inside the main gearbox.

The 312 4x4 with a MultiJet diesel (like the OP's car) has a 'standard' gearbox and a separate PTU bolted on the end, and that PTU has its own little oil sump. So on that basis, you could describe the gearbox of a diesel 4x4 as being 'cooking' -- its the standard gearbox used on the two- and four-wheel drive Panda (and several other Fiats too) and with a fairly standard gear oil spec. The PTU on the other hand needs that GL5 oil.

 

[Gooseman]

Thanks for all the replies. I've got it booked in at a local garage to confirm that it is in fact the wheel bearing(s), so I'll ask them about changing the gearbox oil (it can't hurt). It looks like a fun car so I'm looking forward to actually driving it!

 

[steveras57]

no pain no gain!as they say!

 

[The Panda Nut]

Bleed the clutch too. It can make a significant difference.