General Panda ECU

[Enzo]

Hi John H., I preferred to open a new topic to discuss about "our" ECU...my own car's equipped with Bosch Monojetronic Spi injection...and I found a .pdf file on the web which seems to be helpful for car repairers!There are described all the ECU types, Bosch, Marelli,Siemens, Delphi and Ford EEC!You can find how to do measurements and the values for tensions,resistances and pressures recommended:I...the only problem for you is that it's written in italian, even if the technician language is easy to translate!

About resetting Bosch ECU...I know it's sufficient to disconnect the battery for atleast 5 minutes and the operation is done[8D]!Then reconnect the battery and turn on the engine without touching the throttle...wait it warms up till the radiator fan switches on!After this you need to do a little round (10km are enough) to let the ECU auto-learn your own engine parameters...this is the description I found in the document I told you!

 

[John H]

Thanks very much for the information:
it is much the same as I had gathered from other sources, but it's excellant to get it confirmed.

Could you provide the URL for the .pdf file, please?
It would be interesting to have access to the expected values for various parameters, and other information.

I'm hoping there will be sufficient clues in the names and range of values for me to interpret what's happening...

Failing that I might need to improve my (non existant)Italian:I


Ciao [8D]


John H

 

[Enzo]

Hope it can be of use...http://xoomer.virgilio.it/flmbe/Monob.htm
If you click on the word "Servizi" you can get informations on all the other kinds of injections, i.e. Mpi!

 

[steveyensen]

Thanks Enzo!

Steve "2 Pandas" Yensen - the white-haired lunatic and beagle fanatic ...

 

[John H]

I'll second the thanks.

I haven't managed to look through much of it yet, and have understood a lot less, but it does look good.

First impressions are it is similar to a UK book I have borrowed in the past - title something like:
Automotive Electronic Engine Management Systems by Haynes.

Steve - "2 Pandas" ??
You kept that quiet.

Regards

John H

 

[Pete]

Hello Enzo and John.
Thanks for this information Enzo, I have been looking for this for some time. As the file is in Italian, would it be possible for you to indicate where, in the eight pages relating to the Monojetronic system, the section on re-setting the ECU can be found, so that I will not have to translate the whole lot?
Thanks again.

Hello John.
Can I take it from your last post, that you have seen this information, in English, in the Haynes book that you mentioned?

Thanks again, Pete.

 

[Enzo]

The passage's the following one:

Scollegare il connettore centralina o la batteria per alcuni minuti

- Ripristinare il collegamento

- Avviare il motore, senza toccare l'acceleratore e lasciare girare al minimo fino a quando non

raggiunge la temperatura di regime, attendere che l'elettroventola si sia accesa.

- Effettuare un giro di prova simulando tutte le condizioni di carico



Con questa operazione e' stato effettuato auto-apprendimento corretto della centralina, sistemando in questo modo eventuali variazioni di carburazione dovute al naturale invecchiamento del motore.

Questa procedura serve per stabilizzare il minimo, inoltre e' da considerare normale un lento ritorno al regime di minimo durante le fasi di rilascio dell'acceleratore.

[8D]

Tell me if you need translation...I'll connect again later!

 

[John H]

<blockquote id="quote"> face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pete
Hello John.
Can I take it from your last post, that you have seen this information, in English, in the Haynes book that you mentioned?

Thanks again, Pete.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

It looks to be to a similar depth - but the book (chapter 19) was about Bosch Monomotronic discussing different versions and pin-outs for Fiat, Lancia, Citroen, Peugeot and VW versions.
That unit deals with the ignition as well as injection, unlike the Monojetronic my Panda has which is injection only.

The other issue with the book is it's a bit generic:
typical values for CTS

0 centigrade 4800 - 6600 ohms 4 - 4.5 volts

for example, with figures for
10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 80 and 110 degrees.

But they're a bit different to the website, and I suspect the site is correct - if only I could extra more of the meaning, as well as the figures.

One thing which did tickle me a bit was trying to translate this, for example:

Il piedino 6

the nearest I could find was "playing footsie" :I

Presumably it's talking about a temporary connection to teminal 6 on a connector block with a voltmeter...

Regards


John H (AKA Another John H)

 

[Enzo]

"playing footsie"==>piedino sorry but there's no mention about these things in that document[)]!The word "piedino" stays for "pin", meaning the ones on the ECU where you can do the measurements with a tester!And I can't see the images too...[!],even if the text seems to be exhaustive.

 

[Pete]

Thanks very much Enzo. Now that I know what part of the text to look at, I will take it from here. Appreciate your help.
Rgds, Pete.

 

[Pete]

Hello Enzo.
I have translated the passage you refer to as best I can. Would you please read and tell me if I have missed anything or lost any of the meaning?
Thanks.

1, Disconnect ECU or battery for some minutes.
2, Restore connection.
3, Start engine and without touching accelerator, allow to run until cooling fan cuts in.
4, Test drive, attempting to simulate all normal driving conditions.
5, This should re-program the ECU, adjusting the carburation to suit the age and wear of the engine.
6, This proceedure serves to stabilize the settings and to minimize the time required to return to normal tick over speed on the release of the accelerator.

Had to laugh, Alta-Vista "Babelfish" translates ECU as "Telephone Exchange"

Thanks again, Pete.

 

[John H]

Thanks for that Pete, and thanks again to Enzo.

Having looked at the site more carefully, and finding out the bits of information I have, there is no real comparison:
the site details exactly what I need to know, rather than guessing between several bits of information for systems which aren't quite the same.

Early on in the process of trying to get my Panda to go correctly I thought I had a problem with the throttle position potentiometer having broken track(s), as one of them stopped giving readings on the wiper beyond a quarter turn. It was only the cost of the thing, and the fact there was a hint of a Bosch unit on another system which had the twin track arrangement which more or less matched what mine does, that stopped me from buying another[:0]
The section
Verifica del potenziometro farfalla
tells all.

I even have some of the pictures too, on one of the computers here - I think that's down to service patches on the machine, although it's running an old version of Internet Explorer.
Version 5.00.2614.3500CO according to Help/about.

Brilliant site[8D][8D]

Thanks


John H

 

[Enzo]

I remember just we'd bought this car it showed problems when running at idle...after the tester had been connected to the ECU it showed the error of that potentiometerB)!The problem is that it's very difficult to replace it only because of it complicate setting on the throttle body (it needs to be set in a precise position for correct reading)...on the site you see the procedure to check if its position's correct, that is with throttle valve closed you should read a tension between 190 and 210mV! The double track is of use to substitute the twin body carburettor, which equipped those engines when not catalytic!
The drawback on my Panda has been worked out by buying another throttle body from a scrapyard...we paid it about 100€, while a new one would have been our for more than 350€€ B)[:0][V]!


For Pete: the translation is correct, now take your multimeter and check tensions and resistances and let's know what you find[8D]!

 

[Pete]

Hello Enzo.
Could I please ask a favor of you?
In the file you advised us of, there is a section covering Webber Marelli IAW Serie 06/08/16 systems.

If the "06" refers to the IAW 6FSH, 6FSJ and 6FSK ECUs, these are the ones used on the later SPI Pandas. If the "16" refers to the IAW 16 series ECUs, then these are used on the Cinquecento. Could I ask you to take a quick look and if possible, confirm if this is the case?

Thank you, Pete.

 

[John H]

Hi again Enzo.

I've started to get some unusual running on my Panda during the first minute or so on these last few colder mornings.. so I thought I'd have a closer look at the site you posted above to check my ATS and CTS resistances and voltages.

One of the techniques it mentions is to make measurements at the ECU connector - so any wiring or connector problems are revealed with the tests.
That sounds an absolutely wonderful idea - really good engineering and all that... BUT.
I had my ECU out this afternoon, and it isn't obvious how to patch into the ECU or connector.

Do FIAT use a "break out box" with a plug and socket which matches the ECU??

I think I'll probably resort to testing at the sensors again - the only thing I've found is a Russian site
http://www.ardio.ru/razsig.php
the translations by
http://www.worldlingo.com/wl/Translate

have given me an idea to make one if I can get some good connectors....

Regards

John H

 

[Enzo]

I think Fiat garages use the ECU tester to look for problems...on its display appear all the values coming from the sensors, including the Lambda !So, they shouldn't need to measure the resistances directly on the ECU's pins or on the sensors' terminals[^]...atleast in theory!The better solution for us could be the direct measurement on the ATS & CTS, they're to show the same resistances at the same temperature[8D]...

Ah...I advice you to use sometimes an injector cleaner, like STP or other brands, because now I feel the engine running more smoothly, particularly at high rpm...maybe the 5€ I spent had a positive effect on me:I!

 

[John H]

Agreed there is an extra plug in the wiring loom, which is presumably for the diagnostics.

I suppose a break out box is the old tech way of doing things - but that site goes on about checking specific earths (mass?) on pins 5, 6, 11, and 25 of the ECU, of which I understand three are specific for individual sensors: namely
Lambda
ATS
CTS

If you have a poor earth the ECU gets the wrong results, although if you measure at the sensor with respect to the local earth (engine block) you get the right result.
The site specifies less than 0.3 to 0.5 ohms between them.

If you see what I mean.

Also measuring there you know all the wiring and connectors are happy.
Plus, in disconnecting the ECU from the loom for a minute or two, you give it a full reset.. which rarely does microprocessor controlled things any harm (it's often the quickest fix).

Regarding injector cleaner - yes, it gets some every second fill up.
I also use either Shell or Texaco petrol as a general rule.
I stopped using supermarket fuel some years ago when it upset the UNO we had then[!]