Technical Overheating

[Dave Henry]

Hi All

My brother has a S reg 1.8 16v Barchetta that he has been having some overheating issues with.

Basically what appears to happen is it starts fine but is a bit rough when ticking over, the temperature gauge goes up a bit faster than normal then the fan kicks in. At this point the radiator feels cool and so do the hoses at the top and bottom of the radiator.

What could be the problem? Water pump not working? Thermostat not opening? Head gasget gone as it has been using some water?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Dave

 

[bollie69]

Like you said, one of the 2 problems stated. I would try replacing the thermo, if that fails you could change the water pump. Don't thing a blown headgasket would cause a car to overheat instantly. You would notice other issuses.

 

[Rustbucket]

:yeahthat:
If the fan is coming on but the radiator is cold then you've only got water circulating through the block. Sounds like thermostat is jammed shut. Not a big job to do..DIY for anybody handy with tools. Just make sure you bleed the system properly afterwards using the bleed screws.

Out of interest..when was the timing belt / water pump last changed?

 

[Dave Henry]

:yeahthat:
If the fan is coming on but the radiator is cold then you've only got water circulating through the block. Sounds like thermostat is jammed shut. Not a big job to do..DIY for anybody handy with tools. Just make sure you bleed the system properly afterwards using the bleed screws.

Out of interest..when was the timing belt / water pump last changed?

Thanks both. Will get the thermostat changed to see if that sorts it.

Where are all the bleed screws? I found one at the top of the radiator in the middle be couldn't find another one?

The car was bought with no history so no details of if/ when cam belt or water pump changed. Does anyone have a ball park figure for getting a garage to do this? I see that space is tight so is it an engine out job?

Thanks again

Dave

 

[Rustbucket]

I think there are 3 bleed screws...can't remember where they are as I've got a non-standard B

Timing belt and pump shouldn't be a big issue. Seems to be around £400 and probably cheaper at an independent garage rather than Fiat main dealer. Space is very limited, more so if you have aircon as the compressor gets in the way and they might pull the engine out.

 

[bollie69]

I think there are 3 bleed screws...can't remember where they are as I've got a non-standard B

Timing belt and pump shouldn't be a big issue. Seems to be around £400 and probably cheaper at an independent garage rather than Fiat main dealer. Space is very limited, more so if you have aircon as the compressor gets in the way and they might pull the engine out.

I would never go to an indipendent garage, only if you know they have expirience with Bees.
They need special equipment to hold the cams in place when changing cambelt or variator.
At a FIAT dealer you also have warranty if thing turn out wrong. Make shure you ask for an invoice.

Waterpump doesn't cost more than 40

 

[afroking]

I would never go to an indipendent garage, only if you know they have expirience with Bees.
They need special equipment to hold the cams in place when changing cambelt or variator.
At a FIAT dealer you also have warranty if thing turn out wrong. Make shure you ask for an invoice.

Waterpump doesn't cost more than 40

That is crazy.

Any competant Fiat/Alfa/Lancia specialist will have the cam lock tools.

Don't tar them all with the same brush, how many Fiat dealerships see Barchettas on a regular basis - not many!

A good independant specialist would correct the work if anything were to go wrong.

In most cases independant garages can offer a 50% price cut in Fiat UK prices.

 

[afroking]

If the thermostat has failed in the shut position and the car has overheated and is now loosing water, chances are your headgasket has also failed.

Do you by any chance have a Y10 turbo?

 

[Dave Henry]

If the thermostat has failed in the shut position and the car has overheated and is now loosing water, chances are your headgasket has also failed.

Do you by any chance have a Y10 turbo?

That is what I think has happended. It is using water and doen't idle that smoothly any more.

I do have a Y10 but it is not a turbo. It looks like one though . The link below goes to my rebuild thread.

It is coming to the pages of Retro Car Magazine in a couple of months.

Cheers

Dave

 

[afroking]

Niiiiice!

 

[swallow]

I would never go to an indipendent garage, only if you know they have expirience with Bees.
They need special equipment to hold the cams in place when changing cambelt or variator.
At a FIAT dealer you also have warranty if thing turn out wrong. Make shure you ask for an invoice.

Waterpump doesn't cost more than 40

I use an independant mechanic who works from home. He's changed the belts on my B 3 times in the last decade. Last time I took him the cam locking tools which I had bought on ebay, he laughed - a competent mechanic won't need the cam tools.

 

[bollie69]

I use an independant mechanic who works from home. He's changed the belts on my B 3 times in the last decade. Last time I took him the cam locking tools which I had bought on ebay, he laughed - a competent mechanic won't need the cam tools.

Until he places it wrong... Won't have the guts to find out
with a dohc engine you should use the cam locking tools, the other methode of marking positions is for double checking the correct placement.

 

[Rustbucket]

Well if you want to be ripped by Fiat main dealers then go right ahead.

I personally wouldn't park my B in the dealers forecourt. With very few exceptions here the service is poor. Including a main dealer who tried to charge me €1200 for a timing belt and water pump change.

' It took us 3 goes to get it right so double the rate..we've never done one of those before..'

'Right mate.. I hear you..can I pay you in bananas next tuesday?'

I didn't pay €1200 for the job...

 

[afroking]

I use an independant mechanic who works from home. He's changed the belts on my B 3 times in the last decade. Last time I took him the cam locking tools which I had bought on ebay, he laughed - a competent mechanic won't need the cam tools.

That's a real stupid idea not using the cam lock tools. What happens if the timing is incorrect before the belt has been changed? That means your 'independant specialist' will set your timing incorrectly again.

 

[swallow]

That's a real stupid idea not using the cam lock tools. What happens if the timing is incorrect before the belt has been changed? That means your 'independant specialist' will set your timing incorrectly again.

sorry, should have said that the guy I use, whilst being an independent has a particular expertise with Alfa & Fiat, so I trust him

I daren't say it but in 10 years I've not had a single mechanical problem with my B

touch wood

 

[afroking]

sorry, should have said that the guy I use, whilst being an independent has a particular expertise with Alfa & Fiat, so I trust him

I daren't say it but in 10 years I've not had a single mechanical problem with my B

touch wood

Trust has nothing to do with it, you can't physically set the timing without the cam lock tools if it is already out of time.

I'm not having a go at you, its just fact.

 

[Dave Henry]

Well the engine has been pressure tested now and lots of bubbles coming out of the header tank.

Looks like two options 1. strip the engine and see how bad it actually is or 2. get another second hand engine and drop that in with a new timing belt, water pump, thermostat etc

Not sure which will be the best way forward. The current engine only has 60,000km on it so would be a shame to give up on it but to get the car back in the road an engine swap might be the best. I can then take my time rebuilding the knackered one.

I have done a number of engine changes on Unos, pandas and quite a few to my Lancia Y10 but not a barchetta. Is it a particularly difficuilt engine to change? Also is the Bravo 1.8 16v engine the same? Appear to me more common to find these for sale than ones from Barchettas.

Thanks for the advice so far.

Dave

 

[Rustbucket]

I think the Bravo was the same basic block 1747cc but only produced 110hp? Possibly the variable valve timing is missing?

The Punto HGT 1747cc engine is identical to the Barchetta and no shortage of donor cars.

You could of course be go completely insane and fit a Coupe 16VT 4 pot...

 

[afroking]

The Barchetta engine block is also the same as the Alfa 1.8 twinspark.

If its just the gasket, I would rebuild the engine in situ, far less hassle than a swap.