General Old cars remembered by Old Farts

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I did have the Churchill Hydrolastic suspension pump in my workshop for BLMC.I have replaced many of the front to rear steel pipes that had rusted and dropped the car down one side.
The Citroen had the pump running from the engine I recall, so you could raise or lower as road dictated. When the green globes failed full of liquid the ride became rock hard!
When doing an Mot or working under them you had to be careful as if you disturbed one of the linkages underneath the car could drop almost to the ground. A lad was killed under one in his lockup not far away from here.
I had a lot of fun in my Citroen Dyanne left hand drive and 435cc I recall having to pull over many a time for my eldest daughter to throw up due to me keeping the same speed up on corners and the straight, lots of body lean.

I was lucky enough to acquire a non working churchill pump at the autojumble in Portobello town hall many years ago - Don't think it's still held there now? - Turned out to be a split seal and, at great expense, relatively speaking, I got a new genuine seal and had a perfectly working pump. In a moment of absolute madness I gave it away to the Scottish Allegro club just a few years ago.

There was latterly an aftermarket nylon pipe replacement option for the hydragas pipes. I fitted them to the Ambassador and a later Allegro 1500 estate I owned with great success.

Body roll on the wee Citroens is, of course, legendary. But you just have to do it don't you! Going round in circles on full lock as fast as you dare is an unbelievable experience! Scary to view as a bystander.

 

[Wiltshire Chris]

I ran a Citroen DS for a few years in the late '90's after wanting one for ages. Fantastic ride and always had people asking about it. Loved the turning headlights, a really simple mechanism that worked well. Rust got mine in the end but I'd have another one. I agree with Ed China that they are a good electric conversion as the engines weren't up to much anyway and there's plenty of room in them.

 

[Motorcyclist Colin]

I did have the Churchill Hydrolastic suspension pump in my workshop for BLMC.I have replaced many of the front to rear steel pipes that had rusted and dropped the car down one side.
The Citroen had the pump running from the engine I recall, so you could raise or lower as road dictated. When the green globes failed full of liquid the ride became rock hard!
When doing an Mot or working under them you had to be careful as if you disturbed one of the linkages underneath the car could drop almost to the ground. A lad was killed under one in his lockup not far away from here.
I had a lot of fun in my Citroen Dyanne left hand drive and 435cc I recall having to pull over many a time for my eldest daughter to throw up due to me keeping the same speed up on corners and the straight, lots of body lean.

Well Jock and Mike, seems to me we all think what we really need these days, is a 2CV or Dyanne. I would however always go for the rip roaring POWER version of 602cc. Yes? No?

 

[Motorcyclist Colin]

I was lucky enough to acquire a non working churchill pump at the autojumble in Portobello town hall many years ago - Don't think it's still held there now? - Turned out to be a split seal and, at great expense, relatively speaking, I got a new genuine seal and had a perfectly working pump. In a moment of absolute madness I gave it away to the Scottish Allegro club just a few years ago.

There was latterly an aftermarket nylon pipe replacement option for the hydragas pipes. I fitted them to the Ambassador and a later Allegro 1500 estate I owned with great success.

Body roll on the wee Citroens is, of course, legendary. But you just have to do it don't you! Going round in circles on full lock as fast as you dare is an unbelievable experience! Scary to view as a bystander.

I was lucky enough to acquire a non working churchill pump at the autojumble in Portobello town hall many years ago - Don't think it's still held there now? - Turned out to be a split seal and, at great expense, relatively speaking, I got a new genuine seal and had a perfectly working pump. In a moment of absolute madness I gave it away to the Scottish Allegro club just a few years ago.

There was latterly an aftermarket nylon pipe replacement option for the hydragas pipes. I fitted them to the Ambassador and a later Allegro 1500 estate I owned with great success.

Body roll on the wee Citroens is, of course, legendary. But you just have to do it don't you! Going round in circles on full lock as fast as you dare is an unbelievable experience! Scary to view as a bystander.

I believe Citroen offered a substantial prize to anyone who could overturn a 2CV, and no-one ever won it
Mon Dieu, quelle domage!

 

[jackwhoo]

I have a hankering for 2cv or Dyanne

 

[mowermender70]

well citreon i suppose someone has to have one never owned a ford (make there money on spares) never owned citreon or any french car

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Well Jock and Mike, seems to me we all think what we really need these days, is a 2CV or Dyanne. I would however always go for the rip roaring POWER version of 602cc. Yes? No?

Our Dyane was a 602 and it was so slow, but you adapted and got used to it - just needs a completely different mindset. Dread to think what the smaller engine must drive like.

 

[jackwhoo]

Delightful Dyane

I hope others find the link above to a 1976 review / road test interesting

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Late to the party: I too had 2CV, a 1985 model bought brand new. I ran it for over 10 years and around 120,000 miles. By the time I sold it (for £602 – £1 per cc!) it was on its third chassis, second clutch and still going strong. The problem was the rate of rust growth was getting faster than the rate of speed growth at the lights

I added an anti roll bar from an Ami at a scrapyard (although later took this out again as it reduced the off road ability!) and serviced it myself with only a handful of cheap tools. Great car. (I ran the local 2CV club briefly too -- the Hertfordshire HillHoppers!)

My primary reason for selling it was that it had the crash resistance of a wet paper bag and we'd just had our first child. I replaced it with a used 1988 Renault 5. Even then, Renault were regarded as 'strong' cars in accidents and it certainly fared better than the Transit van that drove into the back of me. By this time my wife was driving around in a Citroen BX (still probably the best car we've owned to drive over speed bumps)

My 2CV followed a long line of French cars at home. My dad had a 1972 Renault 16 from new as a company car, and later my grandfather bought one, impressed by the comfort of ours. My mum had that off him and it was that car I took (and passed) my driving test in (in 1981). Prior to that, mum had a very old Renault 4 (E reg - 1967?), with three gears and six volt electrics. That was succeeded by an newer (J reg) Renault 4, then a string of Renault 5s, including the 'daft' TX model with a 1.4 engine: too much power for its skinny tyres and it often would sit spinning the wheels if you tried a spirited getaway! When the local Renault dealer closed, she moved to Japanese cars. I too had a Renault 14 for time - the 'posh' TS model which had both central locking and electric windows - not common on a V-reg car. It rusted faster than the 2CV though!

I'd always wanted a 4x4 Panda and (after a few years of working and so able to buy our second car as a 'fun' item rather than just a cost-effective runabout, I bought a 2005 model in 2007. The place that sold it based its price on a regular 169 Panda, so it was a bit of a bargain. I upgraded that to a 2013 model in 2014 and have had two more since (the last a replacement for one that was written off buy a large truck driving into me after just a few weeks of ownership). I bleveive my current 4x4 is one of the very last diesel models sold in the UK. It was preregistered in May 2018 and I bought it in August that year. I think it was dropped from Fiat's price lists by then. Still love it now.

 

[Motorcyclist Colin]

Our Dyane was a 602 and it was so slow, but you adapted and got used to it - just needs a completely different mindset. Dread to think what the smaller engine must drive like.

Hi Jock You just got it up to flat out and stayed there, as you well know. One great thing about it was that it forced you to look well ahead, and plan ahead overtaking braking etcetc. Looking well ahead is a great benefit to safe fast driving. When I did an advanced course with a police instructer he said, "I always lookas far ahead as I can, I would look into the next County if I could" I have a feeling that quote may also appear in "Roadcraft" the Police Manual.
"As far ahead as possible," is absolutely essential if you are to survive as a motorcyclist, as is a sixth sense

 

[bugsymike]

Well Jock and Mike, seems to me we all think what we really need these days, is a 2CV or Dyanne. I would however always go for the rip roaring POWER version of 602cc. Yes? No?

Didn't some brave people put the aircooled four cylinder in from the Citroen GS 1220?

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Didn't some brave people put the aircooled four cylinder in from the Citroen GS 1220?

I have a distant recollection of reading about one - but as the engine was longer they had to fabricate a longer bonnet from fibreglass to cover it.

 

[bugsymike]

The LHD one I had was on Dutch number plates but had spent all it's life in Spain, purchase price £40, after registering it, taking all the seats out (designed for camping) and pressure washing all the student crap from inside, a set of alternator brushes £6 from dealer and two tyres from scrapyard for £5 (one brand new) it flew through Mot, great fun though had to go when we had a surprise bonus twins to add to the other three , so it was Peugeots 504 Family 7 seater estates and later the 505 but not so good. The first 504 was a 2 litre petrol automatic, I had a 504 2.3 diesel manual pick up with 175k miles that ran perfectly and everything swapped by bolting including the torque tube and pedal boxes, all I had to do was fit a diesel return to the tank and I had a economical cruiser that did the family bit very well in comfort.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Delightful Dyane

I hope others find the link above to a 1976 review / road test interesting

Thanks for that Jack, I enormously enjoyed reading it. Brings back so many memories. Mine had the back seat which was held by a catch, no nuts and bolts, 30 seconds and it was out ready for the picnic! Memories are a bit dim now but I'm sure mine had the inertial dampers - it definitely had the drum front brakes and not the much more desirable discs. The shoes were an absolute b****r to set up because the fixed end of the shoes mounted on eccentric "pegs" - like the early Land Rovers - You were supposed to use a radiusing tool which mounted to the hub and then you rotated it whilst adjusting the eccentric to achieve touching of the lining all round it's radius. I didn't have the tool and was shown how to apply blackboard chalk to the inside of the drum, fit the drum and, with the brake very lightly applied, rotate the drum so the lining rubbed against it and the chalk was transferred to the lining. Then you slid the drum back and observed where the chalk marks were and adjusted the eccentric, just a "nudge" each time, to increase coverage. Invariably this process went on and on with new chalk being applied, until eventually the drum and lining were aligned.

I remember too the points which were behind the fan. the fan was mounted on the crankshaft nose on a taper, unkeyed, so had to be tight to transfer the drive but had to be removed for access to the points. The tapered crankshft "nose" was quite small diameter, fragile and prone to breaking off even when the correct Citroen puller was used. it was always a "squeaky bum" experience changing the points! Some time later a Citroen mechanic suggested cutting off two opposing fan blades (so balance is retained) then you can get to the points without removing the fan. He said he'd done it and there had been no cooling problems. Think about it said he, these cars operate in all climates all over the world. The heat you get in Britain is nothing to them. It took me some time to decide to do what he suggested but eventually I did and doing points became a relative pleasure from then on - and she didn't have any overheating problems either.

Having worked with the very similar wee DAF air cooled twins, which used very similar heat exchangers on the exhausts to provide hot air to the cabin, I was nervous about this way of doing it. Why? The Dafs used a cast aluminium finned arrangement on the exhaust headers - I think it was cast in place on the pipes? - surrounded by steel ducting which allowed the heat from the exhaust to be used to heat the air for the cabin. The Citroen used a similar system (I actually never had a Citroen one in pieces though so have only seen pictures) The Daf ones would corrode the header pipes - Aluminium and steel are not happy bedfellows - until they were holed whereupon you were pumping exhaust gasses directly into the cabin. Not many got to this stage, but I've seen a few, and the only cure was to fit, relatively expensive, new exhaust headers (manifolds to you sir). Anyone with Citroen experience know if they suffered the same problems?

Oh dear, all this is kindling great nostalgic feelings in me. I'd love to have one again. I've always had a real hankering after the Acadiane, maybe I could justify it to Mrs J on grounds of practicality and cheapness of operation?

 

[Motorcyclist Colin]

If I recall correctly The GS 1220 engine was used by some but the easier option was a flat twin BMW motorbike engine. The 1000cc version could be found easily enough with up to 70bhp. I found the 602cc Citroen engine adequate but necessary to keep it on the boil.
I had a bit of luck (good and bad) with the last 2 "Deuches" i had . The good luck was the number of one was E2 CVE on my plate as E 2CV E and the second one was C2 CVC obviously C 2CV C. I did not have the sense to retain them when I sold them.
The bad luck was with the second one (never should have sold the first, but one chap with a great collection of cars made me an offer I could not refuse so "Mimi" went) C2 CVE drove OK had been cheap enough to buy, but was a bit "odd" in handling. I went to collect my wife from somewhere, she got in, I started the engine pressed the clutch and my seat fell over backwards. Good job I was not trying to brake from high (haha) speed! Absolutely nothing would induce the seat to go back in it's runners there and then and it eventually required a BIG hammer to get the seat in and the car back home, the body tub was twisted . Enough- it had to go.

 

[Motorcyclist Colin]

Thanks for that Jack, I enormously enjoyed reading it. Brings back so many memories. Mine had the back seat which was held by a catch, no nuts and bolts, 30 seconds and it was out ready for the picnic! Memories are a bit dim now but I'm sure mine had the inertial dampers - it definitely had the drum front brakes and not the much more desirable discs. The shoes were an absolute b****r to set up because the fixed end of the shoes mounted on eccentric "pegs" - like the early Land Rovers - You were supposed to use a radiusing tool which mounted to the hub and then you rotated it whilst adjusting the eccentric to achieve touching of the lining all round it's radius. I didn't have the tool and was shown how to apply blackboard chalk to the inside of the drum, fit the drum and, with the brake very lightly applied, rotate the drum so the lining rubbed against it and the chalk was transferred to the lining. Then you slid the drum back and observed where the chalk marks were and adjusted the eccentric, just a "nudge" each time, to increase coverage. Invariably this process went on and on with new chalk being applied, until eventually the drum and lining were aligned.

I remember too the points which were behind the fan. the fan was mounted on the crankshaft nose on a taper, unkeyed, so had to be tight to transfer the drive but had to be removed for access to the points. The tapered crankshft "nose" was quite small diameter, fragile and prone to breaking off even when the correct Citroen puller was used. it was always a "squeaky bum" experience changing the points! Some time later a Citroen mechanic suggested cutting off two opposing fan blades (so balance is retained) then you can get to the points without removing the fan. He said he'd done it and there had been no cooling problems. Think about it said he, these cars operate in all climates all over the world. The heat you get in Britain is nothing to them. It took me some time to decide to do what he suggested but eventually I did and doing points became a relative pleasure from then on - and she didn't have any overheating problems either.

Having worked with the very similar wee DAF air cooled twins, which used very similar heat exchangers on the exhausts to provide hot air to the cabin, I was nervous about this way of doing it. Why? The Dafs used a cast aluminium finned arrangement on the exhaust headers - I think it was cast in place on the pipes? - surrounded by steel ducting which allowed the heat from the exhaust to be used to heat the air for the cabin. The Citroen used a similar system (I actually never had a Citroen one in pieces though so have only seen pictures) The Daf ones would corrode the header pipes - Aluminium and steel are not happy bedfellows - until they were holed whereupon you were pumping exhaust gasses directly into the cabin. Not many got to this stage, but I've seen a few, and the only cure was to fit, relatively expensive, new exhaust headers (manifolds to you sir). Anyone with Citroen experience know if they suffered the same problems?

Oh dear, all this is kindling great nostalgic feelings in me. I'd love to have one again. I've always had a real hankering after the Acadiane, maybe I could justify it to Mrs J on grounds of practicality and cheapness of operation?

Hi Jock
I'd like a Mehari or a genuine Sahara, but could not possibly justify either

 

[KPat]

I had an AXGT. Which turned out to be a thief magnet. Various theft attempts, door lock damage. Wheels got stolen, kenwood speakers then the whole car. I have never bought a hot hatch since.

 

[bugsymike]

I had an AXGT. Which turned out to be a thief magnet. Various theft attempts, door lock damage. Wheels got stolen, kenwood speakers then the whole car. I have never bought a hot hatch since.

Early VW beetle used the same heat exchanger system, which was renowned for unexplained car crashes as the occupants were breathing exhaust fumes on long journeys and falling asleep.
I had a Citroen Visa with the 650cc aircooled lump. I bought it cheap from a car salesman as brake warning light was on and pedal to the floor, he said "you can't roadtest it" I said if I am buying I am going to try it, which I did and reduced the price further . Not often you can do that with a car salesman.
Any way having driven it I had I idea what was wrong, front brakes did need replacing which pushed the fluid up in the reservoir and put the light out, back brakes on inspection were brand new , but somehow they had fitted the self adjuster from N/S to O/S, so brakes got worse the more the handbrake and foot brake activated the self adjusters, so swapped around , wound up the adjusters and it was a good little motor at the right price!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

If I recall correctly The GS 1220 engine was used by some

Hi Jock
I'd like a Mehari or a genuine Sahara, but could not possibly justify either

If I remember the Ami (1961 to 1978) could be had with the GS engine from the factory - or if not the actual GS motor it was certainly a flat 4.

Although the Dyane, 2CV and Acadiene, maybe even the weird looking Ami too now I've mentioned it, all appeal to me I never fancied the Mehari or Sahara - probably just a wee bit to "hair shirt" for me?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Another memory of the Dyane just sprang to mind. Bombing down the M6 for our annual holiday - That year camping in south Wales and the west country - very slowly creeping past the heavy lorries on the M6 with foot pretty much on the floor. Then having them all, equally slowly, overtake us on the hills (climbing up shap was interesting) only to then slowly creep back past them over the next 50 to 100 miles. Many of the drivers were smiling and waving to the kids as we overtook with only maybe a 2 or 3 MPH difference.