Technical Not sure what I've got for front wheel setup...

[nzbobc]

So, as part of my mini-resto, I'm looking the front end over... And, I've got a few questions as to what I have and need....

With my hands at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock, I can jiggle the right front tyre. Not a lot, but a little. Maybe a few mm's. I can hear it, too. With the tyre removed, I can do the same with the brake mounting plate. So, this means it's the king pin, right? I'm now having some concerns about passing MOT/Warrant of Fitness given this play. I read that I can pump them up with grease and that can help, but I tried that and it doesn't help...

From what I've read, I'm thinking my best choice is to just replace the entire steering knuckle. But here's another question: I don't know which ones I need (500, 126, or otherwise). That's because I've got something weird going on with the bearing size:

The inner bearing looks to be 52mm Outside Diameter and 23mm Inside Diameter. This matches with a 126P/126BIS. But, the outside bearing measures ~41mm OD and 15mm ID. This measurement doesn't match with anything Gerstl lists (I'm referencing Gerstl because they are the only site I found that gives bearing diameters). The outer bearing diameters of the 126P/126BIS are 52mm OD, 15mm ID, according to Gerstl.

FWIW, the 500F and 126.1 Series diameters are : Outer is 35mm OD, 15mm ID. Inner is 43mm OD, 20mm ID.

What the heck? Any ideas what I have for an stub axle stub and hub?

And, what's up with bearing pre-load? After setting this ala Haynes, I can easily spin it off with my fingers. It's a little unnerving to have them that loose.

Any thoughts on these questions would help!

PS: The diameter of the lip of the grease cap is 47mm.

 

[124spiderman]

From the pic, it looks to me that you have a 126 front hub or possibly 850. Taper bearings need to be tightened and then backed off 1/3 of a turn. Then you crimp the nut end with a cold punch/chisel. Nuts can be used only once. BTW I bought my bearings from a bearing shop in Sydney (CBC Bearings). They will match the old ones. Safer bet than trying to buy O/S as its a gamble with sizing.

 

[tjmra]

OK I give up.

In one of your early posts you noted you were replacing your rear wheel bearings (500F with 126 brakes) so I gather you have a 500F with some 126 mods at the back.

I have included a photo of my OZ 69F (standard) front hub. Looks a lot different to what you have so it looks like you may have the same thing going on at the front (as per 124Spidermans last post).



Joe R

 

[fiat500]

Bob, I agree aith the previous posts..that is not a standard F hub. I have owned a BIS and Cinquecento and with those cutouts and steady springs it looks more like that later style although I have never seen a standard 126 hub setup which it is most likely to be.

 

[fiat500]

Morning ablutions over I had another thought. If you plan on replacing the bearings in any case, why not splash out a bit further and get standard 500F front drums. You may not realise that the bearings actually locate in the brake drum because it serves as the hub. Then you could get standard bearings and the regular stub axle/kingpin setup. There problem is there may then be an issue with the backplate which presumably has also come off a donor vehicle.

 

[shielsy]

mine is a 1970 f heres my set up owen nw

 

[fiat500]

Owen, you must have a pic of the 126 hub.

 

[nzbobc]

Thanks for the thoughts and ideas. Yeah, all kind of confusing...

In taking more measurements today and surfing the 'net, it looks like I may have 126 stub axles. The diameters where the bearings ride on the axles match diameters for 126P and BIS bearings.

As for the hub, I don't know. I couldn't find any definitive info about it. The outside bearing diameter doesn't match a 126, 126P, or BIS bearing and it doesn't look like a 126 hub shown at one of the online resellers. Can't find any info about the 850 hub. From the close up photo of the hub, it's different from the back ones in that, the outer raceway sits up on a lip that is part of the hub.

When we bought the car, the previous owner stated that he had upgraded the brakes/wheels taken from a 126.

The rear wheel stub axle I have look like 126's and the new 126 bearings match up with it and the old hub. I've included photos of this stub axle.

So, moving forward, it would seem that it would make sense to replace the steering knuckle and hub with a 126 setup. This way, future bearing swaps would be easy rather than have custom made bearings (A good alternative if I get in a jamb). I'm leaning towards a 126 setup since the rear wheels are 126's. The previous owner stated that the 126 system was better and he also swapped the steering over to a 126 (I haven't researched yet to know what the differences are).

Assuming the front stub axles are 126, the next question is how much of the front suspension is 126. I noticed that the wishbone rubber bushes, which I'd like to replace, are different between the 500 and 126... So, parts like the brake backing plates are also unknown-hopefully 126's.

Hopefully tho, the king pins will pass MOT/Warrant of Fitness as I'd like to save this project for another day.

To that end, do I have that right: rocking the tyre vertically, I get a little movement. That's the king pin, correct? I hoping the little play is not cause for failure.

 

[shielsy]

lol just realised that ive put up the 500 set uo DOH lol :bang:





new king pind fitted





[/URL

this is all i have DOH owen nw:idea:

 

[F123C]

Getting play/rock when shaking the wheel vertically (12 &6 o'clock positions) can be kingpins, wheel bearings or play in mountings (should be visible, perished/damaged rubber). Rule out wheel bearings by tightening the hub nut firmly or have someone press the footbrake when you rock the wheel. When I worked in a Fiat main dealers we would tighten the hub to about 20 lb.ft while turning the hub, back of the hub nut and tighten by hand using a socket and extension bar (no lever),( twist it like you would a screwdriver), back off nut by one flat (1/6 turn) and stake the nut in place

Al.

 

[nzbobc]

Thanks for that guys,

I did set the preload on the bearings again to eliminate them as the source of the movement. No sign of movement from at the mountings. So, must be the kingpins..

 

[nzbobc]

It makes sense to replace for me to replace the whole steering knuckle versus just the king pins. I'm going to go with 126 setup.

From what I've read, there's some low quality parts out there. Can anyone recommend where to get quality ones that will last? Or, at least tell me which ones to avoid? You can PM/email me if you don't want to mention the reseller.

Cheers,

 

[Zebravanman]

Thanks for the thoughts and ideas. Yeah, all kind of confusing...

In taking more measurements today and surfing the 'net, it looks like I may have 126 stub axles. The diameters where the bearings ride on the axles match diameters for 126P and BIS bearings.

As for the hub, I don't know. I couldn't find any definitive info about it. The outside bearing diameter doesn't match a 126, 126P, or BIS bearing and it doesn't look like a 126 hub shown at one of the online resellers. Can't find any info about the 850 hub. From the close up photo of the hub, it's different from the back ones in that, the outer raceway sits up on a lip that is part of the hub.

When we bought the car, the previous owner stated that he had upgraded the brakes/wheels taken from a 126.

The rear wheel stub axle I have look like 126's and the new 126 bearings match up with it and the old hub. I've included photos of this stub axle.

So, moving forward, it would seem that it would make sense to replace the steering knuckle and hub with a 126 setup. This way, future bearing swaps would be easy rather than have custom made bearings (A good alternative if I get in a jamb). I'm leaning towards a 126 setup since the rear wheels are 126's. The previous owner stated that the 126 system was better and he also swapped the steering over to a 126 (I haven't researched yet to know what the differences are).

Assuming the front stub axles are 126, the next question is how much of the front suspension is 126. I noticed that the wishbone rubber bushes, which I'd like to replace, are different between the 500 and 126... So, parts like the brake backing plates are also unknown-hopefully 126's.

Hopefully tho, the king pins will pass MOT/Warrant of Fitness as I'd like to save this project for another day.

To that end, do I have that right: rocking the tyre vertically, I get a little movement. That's the king pin, correct? I hoping the little play is not cause for failure.

You've got a similar problem to me, I have a little movement in my front hubs so I decided to by a rebuild kingpin set, when i took them appart I found that it was not the kingpin and it was the middle centre axel assembly, replacing the kingpin would have done nothing. So in my case i need a new hub, there are no bearing to replace in this bit.