Technical Not starting after fuel tank replacement

[h2ypr]

The fuel rail and fuel pipe is now repaired!

Attempted to start the car - no starty!

Pulled said fuel pipe off and no fuel getting to the rail ?

Can hear pump priming so must be the fuel pump again!

Can someone clarify this for me - as this is the last time I want to remove the fuel pump assembly.

There was no fuel pressure from the pump so it wasn’t making it to the front of the car. This was because the fuel pump wasn’t seated properly in the fuel pump assembly. The pump was pushed upwards (vertical) and that then fixed the fuel issue as it was reaching the front. Now it isn’t I’m presuming it’s dropped down again - should there be a retaining clip/spring to hold it up? It is push up and twist? What am I missing here [emoji20]

Thanks.

 

[h2ypr]

Think I’ve worked it out - fuel filter on the mpi is in the tank - it should be attached to the bottom of the fuel pump. But when we removed the fuel pump housing when we were changing the tank the bottom cap dropped off and I think the filter detached at the same time - the old tank is now scrap (not that I’d want to use an old filter anyways) but it appears you can’t buy them separately. So we’ve ordered a new aftermarket fuel pump - we’ll either steal the filter if it fits the oem one or just fit that aftermarket one and see if that makes the difference. It would explain why the fuel pump is dropping a few mm as there is no filter at the bottom which would usually fill the gap!

Can’t get a fuel pump until the new year now which is frustrating.

 

[h2ypr]

Fuel pump arrived and as the old one had died in the meantime fitted the aftermarket pump with filter. That’s that issue fixed.

Fuel rail wasn’t fixed - it started leaking.

So bought another one - definitely fixed now!

Car started and then when touching the throttle would cut out. Long story short it was grande Punto rail with bigger injectors. Swapped the injectors back to seicento ones. Still wouldn’t start ?

Pulled the plugs and checked the condition - very sooty. Cleaned them up and checked they sparking - they were. Checked the fuel to the rail. That is ok.

Refitted - still not starting. Remembered reading about camshaft sensor issues - removed the sensor - cleaned it and refitted. Tried to start but didn’t. Few quick taps with the handle of a screwdriver and it tried again!

It’s Alive!

So it’s now running - need to bleed the brakes as there is air in the system and then take it for a spin to check it’s all ok.

Managed to secure some Punto gt calipers and carriers so have ordered discs and pads to allow me to swap it over.

I have sourced the mounting brackets as well to do the rear caliper conversion.

I have a spare set of fiat coupe rear calipers - 240mm discs and they are the same as some Alfa rears - anyone know if they are ok for a conversion?

 

[h2ypr]

New 185/50 yokos ordered and a new battery as the old one charges all night and then within 2/3 cranks it’s already starting to slow down.

It looks ancient (halfrauds 063) so worth changing.

Ordered the s4 Bosch 202. It’s the same size as stnd and I highly rate Bosch batteries.

 

[h2ypr]

Just realised no pictures makes this a boring read. Car looked like above when bought



Just a few pics of it currently.

 

[h2ypr]

OkaaAaaaaay

Another problem. Car starts with a wee tap of the camshaft sensor. Idles fine. Will idle all day.

Soon as I touch the throttle car wants to cut out unless I’m extremely gentle with it.

At this stage the only part that is different is the fuel pump, so logic would dictate it must be that?

It’s unlikely to have a sudden failure of the map sensor or TPS? But could the belt have slipped with all the cranking with the fuel problems?

Plan is to get the belt cover off and check the timing, if that’s ok,check the vacuum pipes too and from the map and TPS. if that’s all ok then I’ll need to try and source another pump as that’s the only part that’s actually different. It’s brand new but can’t rule it out.

Thoughts anyone?

 

[Ralf S.]

I would replace the camshaft sensor first... you shouldn't have to tap it to get the beast started.. and if it needs tapping, it might just not have the energy to cope when the revs are increasing.

I'd guess your timing is okay.. since it starts easily enough and idles okay. It would sound slightly missing if the timing was out (in any case, it would run rough, not cut out altogether).

The only thing that's going to make the beast cut out is fuel or sparks (lack of). Camshaft sensor is dicky and affects both of those...


Ralf S.

 

[h2ypr]

I would replace the camshaft sensor first... you shouldn't have to tap it to get the beast started.. and if it needs tapping, it might just not have the energy to cope when the revs are increasing.



I'd guess your timing is okay.. since it starts easily enough and idles okay. It would sound slightly missing if the timing was out (in any case, it would run rough, not cut out altogether).



The only thing that's going to make the beast cut out is fuel or sparks (lack of). Camshaft sensor is dicky and affects both of those...





Ralf S.

I’ve bought a camshaft sensor off eBay - I suppose it makes sense to replace something that is faulty.

I’ll report back once it’s fitted.

 

[h2ypr]

I’m leaning towards pressure release valve has failed.

The tank has been changed which has meant the fuel pump housing has been removed.

The fuel pump has died (whilst waiting on the new pump to arrive) but when the new pump arrived, after sorting out the camshaft sensor, the car would run.

However, the car will not rev. Nothing else has been changed on the car bar the fuel rail and that’s a like for like with the same injectors being fitted to it. Injectors have been tested as working and car will happily idle all day!

Reading on 2 seperate threads on here, pressure release valve was the issue when cars wouldn’t rev freely.

I will attempt to get a full fuel pump housing off a breaker and swap it over and see if that is the issue. The camshaft sensor is on route but can’t see that being the issue. (Obv if it is woohooo)

 

[h2ypr]

It was the pump.

Aftermarket pump claims 3 bar but wasn’t running right.

Swapped the old one back in - it’s now working ? - and the car is running fine.

New Bosch battery on charge.

Decided to do the brake upgrade to Punto gt fronts - company provided wrong pads on eBay. So correct 257mm x 20 vented discs but looks like rear pads.

They happy to refund but attempting to get replacements today.

 

[purf]

Nice little Sei! Not many around in that colour. Looks good.

Keep it up - seems you had some bad luck with the new tank. I did one a few years ago and the only thing I regret was not painting the tank. It was supplied with black finish but now it's covered in surface rust.

 

[h2ypr]

Tbh - the underside has been sprayed in stone chip after removing some surface rust from places. It may get done again in a few years if I still have it.

As for the brakes - for got replacement pads and eventually all fitted - attempted to bleed the brakes and the bleed nipples are blocked!

Waiting on new bleed nipples to arrive to swap them over and then try again [emoji30][emoji850]

In the meantime have bought the rear mounting plates for the rear brakes and secured some test discs so I can trial mount the fiat coupe rear calipers, discs and pads onto a spare trailing arm we have.

If we can get the brakes bled and running I might even tax and insure it to give it a little run.

 

[h2ypr]

Bought the fiat coupe rear flexis to fit to the calipers, and Monday off work to give it a good attempt.

If the rear brakes won’t bleed we are going to just switch straight to rear discs and make it work.

Any tips for bleeding brakes? Gonna try 2 man technique bleed the fronts as they were off the car and then do the rears then the fronts again.

Any tips for a mounting bracket for the flexi?
Any tips for the handbrake cable? Seen that you can fit a Punto gt handbrake cable? That the easiest way?

Thanks

 

[h2ypr]

Bought the fiat coupe rear flexis to fit to the calipers, and Monday off work to give it a good attempt.

If the rear brakes won’t bleed we are going to just switch straight to rear discs and make it work.

Any tips for bleeding brakes? Gonna try 2 man technique bleed the fronts as they were off the car and then do the rears then the fronts again.

Any tips for a mounting bracket for the flexi?
Any tips for the handbrake cable? Seen that you can fit a Punto gt handbrake cable? That the easiest way?

Thanks

Replaced all 4 bleed nipples - bled the full system and no more air coming out - probably 3 times round.

Pedal travels around 80% down before any braking but unsure if only the rears are kicking in at that point. This was teSting on the street at 10-15mph. Standing on the brakes didn’t seem to make any difference to the severity of the braking.

Pedal does go softer when starting the car so I do think the Servo is working?

If I jack up the front end, manually spin the wheels and press the brakes - it stops the wheels - pedal feel still poor and not a lot of braking force.

All pointing towards master cylinder at this stage ?

Any one able to help? Starting to lose the faith it’s ever gonna make it on the road!

 

[h2ypr]

Might as well document what happened.

Replaced the master cylinder - bled it in the order according to Haynes manual - got rid of all the air.

I’d say slight improvement in pedal feel. But no actual braking difference.

Decided to test where the issue is - clamped off rear brake flexis - no difference.
Clamped off front flexis - massive difference.

Had a quick check at calipers and looks like the pistons are jamming

Managed to source replacements - will swap them over and hopefully fix the problem.

Fingers crossed.

 

[rallycinq]

Your standard master cylinder is used to supplying the right quantity of fluid for a pair of small rear wheel cylinders. You are now expecting it to push a lot more fluid to move the calipers.

D

 

[h2ypr]

Your standard master cylinder is used to supplying the right quantity of fluid for a pair of small rear wheel cylinders. You are now expecting it to push a lot more fluid to move the calipers.



D

Hi David.

I still have the rear drum setup fitted! As I wanted
To ensure the system was working correctly before attempting to switch to rear discs and pads.

The last roll of the dice is to change the front calipers and if that sorts it, then I can start to switch to rear discs and pads.

Thanks

 

[rallycinq]

Hi David.

I still have the rear drum setup fitted! As I wanted
To ensure the system was working correctly before attempting to switch to rear discs and pads.

The last roll of the dice is to change the front calipers and if that sorts it, then I can start to switch to rear discs and pads.

Thanks

Have you adjusted the rears properly before trying?

D

 

[h2ypr]

Have you adjusted the rears properly before trying?



D

Yeah adjusted both - rear brakes engage very quickly when pedal pushed - took the hub off and removed any lips with wire wheel on the drill.

I have seen on various threads you have said to ensure these are adjusted correctly. So that was one of the things we checked.

 

[h2ypr]

The car is now drivable!!! ?

Changed the front calipers over and bled the system and the brakes are now working!

It’s new discs and pads so they lack the ‘bite’ at the moment.

Decided to also change the exhaust today. Bought a second hand sportex - guy said the race tube was modified to fit a cinquecento.

What he didn’t say was that the whole exhaust was changed! Had to remove the hangars and reposition to make sure it would fit the seicento again.

The issue is that the race tube has been cut down so we’ve used a clamp currently to hold the end of the race tube to the existing system just after the manicat.

It’s leaking at the clamp but we’ve ordered a reducer pipe and some new clamps to secure it.

Next is to fit the new tyres and then move onto the engine work.