500 Newbie requiring advice

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500 Newbie requiring advice

pacman76

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Hi guys, does anyone know the purpose of the bracket attached to the fiat 500 1.2 8V engine manifold? Its in the attached photo below the oil filler cap. I only ask as I the threaded studs appear to have rotted away and I found the bracket sitting on the manifold heat shield. It has just gone for an MOT and this was brought up as an advisory as there is a minor leak of exhaust gases. Does anyone know how easy a repair would be? I'm guessing quite difficult as the existing studs will need drilling out at retapping. Also what are the implications of not doing the repair.

Thanks in advance

Best regards Paul
 

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Welcome to the forums Pacman - the photo is too small to see much - its not an engine lifting bracket is it? ...Doubtful if the studs are made of Alka Seltzer
 
Hello and welcome.

does anyone know the purpose of the bracket attached to the fiat 500 1.2 8V engine manifold?

The bracket is for lifting the engine out using a hoist and chains. Fortunately not something most owners ever need to do; these engines generally outlast the car.

Having seen the extent of the corrosion in the engine bay, I'm wondering what the condition of the rear beam and spring pans is? See this thread.
 
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Not a big issue.. I hope. :D

The bracket, as above, is used to lift the engine out. It's held onto the manifold by the same nuts that hold the manifold to the cylinder head, so if the bracket has dropped, it means that the nut is missing or the stud has fractured, so you could/would also have an exhaust leak as a result.

To fix it, you will need to fit a new nut.. or if the stud is rusted/knackered/missing then you will also need a new stud.

To replace the stud you will need to remove the exhaust manifold and (for space reasons) the airbox.

To remove the exhaust manifold you will need to remove the heat shield.

To remove the heat shield, you will need to remove the lambda sensor. You may find it easier to also loosen the radiator fan (2 self-tapping screws into plastic, so not too tricky). You can leave the fan attached to its wiring but the lambda needs to be disconnected. The connector is a strange one.. you have to lever up the yellow insert "bolt" section that locks the connector halves together.. then pull the two halves apart).

Once you have the fan out of the way and the lambda out, you can detach the heat shield. That's held on by 6 x 10mm bolts. Some of these will likely be rusted in place and shear off rather than come out, so give them a lot of Plusgas penetrating spray and fit new bolts when you reassemble it (M6 x 25mm). Any sheared/not replaced bolts will cause the heat shield to rattle, so either drill the broken ends out for new bolts, or use steel cable ties to hold the shield in place afterwards.

Once the shield is off, you can access the 13mm manifold nuts. There's 8 altogether I think. Some will come of okay, others will unscrew and take the stud with them.. but don't worry about that.. just put it back in the same place and it'll work.

The manifold has a bracket holding it to the clutch bell-housing. If you remove the bolt holding the manifold to the bracket (or the bolt holding the bracket to the bell-housing, if the other one is crusty) then the manifold can drop down (if the fan isn't in place) enough so that you don't need to disconnect it from the exhaust. That will give you enough room to get a stud extractor onto the offending (snapped off?) stud and remove it. There's probably 1cm of it still sticking out.. so use a proper stud extractor and a lot of Plusgas to get it to shift. I have a socket thing that has a lot of vertical rods inside it... they grip the stud and act on it like a very grippy pair of pliers.

A new stud, a new manifold gasket and re-fit is all you need... although I would change any stud that looks remotely manky and fit new flanged nuts, since they're cheaper than the grief you'll save yourself next time you want/need to dismantle the manifold.

I think any competent garage should be able to do this job in an hour and a half or two hours tops.. If the heatshield bolts don't all shear off and need resolving, the biggest grief is actually disconnecting the lambda sensor connector without breaking it.. :D


Ralf S.
 
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Also what are the implications of not doing the repair.

Thanks in advance

Best regards Paul

I can't think of anything to add to the above except that I notice you've asked the above question. If you just leave it then the exhaust gasses will slowly cut/burn a groove into the mating faces between the manifold and head. Probably motorway running will make it do it quicker than popping to the shops! If the garage has warned you about it now you can probably bet it's going to fail it's MOT next time round. Of course having exhaust gasses leaking where they could be picked up by the ventilation system and pumped inside the car is definitely to be avoided and could be very dangerous. From the mechanical point of view, if it gouges out a groove in the manifold you can always source a used one to replace it relatively cheaply but if the head becomes damaged it all gets much more complicated and potentially expensive. I'd be doing something about it sooner rather than later.

PS you can pretty much guarantee that some of the heat shield nuts/studs will shear. Also, if you ever need to actually remove the Oxygen (Lambda) sensor from the manifold then do it with the manifold really hot - take care not to burn yourself! These sensors are notorious for seizing in place and the heat may give you an advantage by expending the metal of the manifold slightly. When you reinstall it apply a little ceramic anti seize to the threads. If you choose to use a metallic based anti seize (like copper brake grease - which does work) be VERY careful not to let any of it get over the end of the thread where it can burn in the exhaust gas or you'll be buying another sensor - doesn't do the Cat much good either.
 
The lambda's connector block is bigger than the hex part, so makes it impossible to fit a ring spanner onto hex. You'll need a 22mm open ended spanner to get the lambda off.


Ralf S.
Very true Ralf. However, unless quite new, I find these sensors can be devilishly tight and an open ender may struggle with this. I bought a set of these: https://www.screwfix.com/p/hilka-pr...JeMPZTC5lBw0nSF19zoaAi-3EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds They were very reasonably priced and they have proved to be pretty robust.

Mostly though you will be removing an O2 sensor to replace it with a new one and in this case I tend to just snip the wires off and use a deep socket.
 
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