New proposals from the PM

[Stuart]

Too little too late imo but:

Must be working in the UK for 4 years before immigrants can claim benefits. And these benefits cannot leave these shores.

Must be working in the UK for 4 years before immigrants can apply for a council home.

Right noises coming from Westminster, must be an election coming up. Lol

 

[lkc]

Some I agree with and some I don't. Not being able to claim in-work benefits is going to make life very difficult for some of the immigrants working in lower paid jobs and may put them off coming here. Might sound like a good idea but it's proving difficult to get nationals to work in the fish processing plants, abattoirs, the care sector etc. where wages are traditionally low. What DC is proposing is that we allow them to live here, do the jobs many of us don't want to do and expect them to put their lives on hold for four years. Doesn't sound fair to me

however I do think we should adopt the attitude of Australia and only let people come here if they have a job to go to or a means of supporting themselves unless they're genuinely seeking political asylum

 

[mrcinquecento]

I'm going to go a but against the grain here.

Immigration, as a whole, in the grand scheme of everything, is not really a problem. It's only really becoming one in the media (and therefore parties trying to appease people to stave off the likes of UKIP) because it's flavor of the month.

Is it an issue we should keep and eye on and keep tweaking policies to make sure it doesn't develop into a bigger problem? absolutely. Is it one that requires urgent action now, a hard line (perhaps even unfair) and sweeping changes? absolutely not.

Generally, those coming here make a positive impact on the economy, many are in jobs that uk people won't take. many also plug skills shortages. Of course there are some coming in that are nothing but a drain on resources and in an ideal world, wouldn't be here. But even so, the "honest" ones... and that is a large majority, more than cover what the minority "take out". By a not even close number. Statistically, British people are a bigger drain on the British systems (health, benefits, housing) than immigrants.

Maybe, just maybe we should look at getting our own **** sorted first before pointing fingers (wrongly) at the "bloody foreigners....comin' here, takin' our jobs", when it is proven that they make more of a positive impact per head than the natives do.

Of course it's always easier to point fingers at other people.

 

[Stuart]

Nobody saying anything about 'bloody foreigners' as you have quaintly put it. Those who come to work legitimately will reap the rewards when its their turn, this is just one part of the issue with the UK benefits system along with another point you have brung up- lazy ****s on benefits.

 

[mrcinquecento]

Nobody saying anything about 'bloody foreigners' as you have quaintly put it. Those who come to work legitimately will reap the rewards when its their turn, this is just one part of the issue with the UK benefits system along with another point you have brung up- lazy ****s on benefits.

It's the "when it's their turn" part i have a problem with. Immigration itself is not the problem, That paints the picture that it is. The second part you have mentioned, the benefits system as a whole.... is the issue.

Even when the system is as it is now though, immigrants make a massively positive contribution to the economy, that is including the deduction of freeloaders of which there are significantly more natives doing so as a percentage than immigrants.

In what way is somebody coming here and needing to blankly wait 4 employed years helpful?

It's nothing but an attention grabbing policy proposal to pacify Daily Mail readers and their likes and serves no real purpose beyond that IMO.

what if people come here, legitimately get a job and for whatever reason stuff isn't working for them through no fault of their own (company fails for example), lose said job. What are we supposed to do? let them freeze and starve on the street because they've not been here long enough whilst some freeloader that was born here gets his house and food paid for life? that's a bit unfair and is totally glossing over the real issue here, which is a hell of a lot closer to home. That is what needs sorted, which when it is, will also apply to immigrants and cover both sides of the matter. Until that is done, it's just lazy finger pointing and blame shifting. It's not a "start", it's just treating the symptom, not the cause.

Yeah, if we're gonna go down that route, i agree we would be better changing entry policy so that the people in a scenario like i mentioned would still be covered and helped, but is less likely to happen which should discourage and indeed stop most people just coming to live off benefits from the start.

 

[M21MFS]

You'd think there's an election next year or something..

 

[Stuart]

They need to start somewhere though, if they start with immigrants after a certain date, that gets the government's foot in the door so to speak to then start (hopefully) rolling out policies right across the board. They will get less opposition (and more votes) doing it that way than just telling the scroungers that they are fckd.

I know which way i would choose to do it though... but then thats why i will never be a politician

 

[lkc]

Generally, those coming here make a positive impact on the economy, many are in jobs that uk people won't take. many also plug skills shortages. Of course there are some coming in that are nothing but a drain on resources and in an ideal world, wouldn't be here. But even so, the "honest" ones... and that is a large majority, more than cover what the minority "take out". By a not even close number. Statistically, British people are a bigger drain on the British systems (health, benefits, housing) than immigrants.

Maybe, just maybe we should look at getting our own **** sorted first before pointing fingers (wrongly) at the "bloody foreigners....comin' here, takin' our jobs", when it is proven that they make more of a positive impact per head than the natives do.

Of course it's always easier to point fingers at other people.

Yup, seem to remember a report from not long ago where it was proven that immigrants on the whole paid more tax into the pot than they received back

You'd think there's an election next year or something..

Oh you old cynic you...

But yeah, it's fairly obvious this is simply to try and grab votes. Problem is the tories have picked on the wrong subject as many realise immigration isn't a huge problem in the scheme of things. Ok, we can't deny the camps at Calais of people trying to get into this country but that's more France's problem than ours. The scale of the camps suggest very few actually make it through that route no matter how hard they try.

the fact is the majority come here legally and and are willing to work and pay into the system. However, many of them work in the low-paid sector and with our high cost of living do require a little help or it just isn't feasible for them to leave their country and do the jobs so many others refuse to do.

Frankly I think we should be looking a little closer to home especially within our politicians. I still think it's outrageous there was a recommendation that they got a 9% pay rise when the majority of the country is still on wage freezes. The fact they were then able to vote for this themselves is shocking. And don't get me started on the bankers...

The difference between rich and poor in this country is really where we should be looking but big business runs everything including our politicians so that won't happen any time soon.