Technical New Ka mk2 owner - advice needed from F500 owners

[cheesesarnie]

Hi

Wondered if you guys could help me. Realise theres likely more knowledge over here that in the little used KA forum. Recently acquired a 2012 low miler ford KA 1.2 mk2 for my daughter as a learner car.

Shes finding it jerky & noisy at low speed, shes got a point.
It definitely would benefit from a new clutch. Biting point near the top but it always changes gear ok, not grinding.
Its had a new cat back exhaust (2 months old - pre us) but it feels really boomy exhaust wise under the driver to me and at low speeds quite lumpy. A mechanic friend has had a quick look on the lift and can't obviously see any leaks on the exhaust.
It reminds me of driving a formula ford when in the pits! lumpy coming off and on the power.

Just wondered if you guys had any thoughts of normal problem areas on these.

Muchos thanks
Tony

 

[jrkitching]

Its had a new cat back exhaust

The quality of cheap aftermarket exhausts leaves a lot to be desired; they are often noisier inside the car than the OEM fit.

 

[cheesesarnie]

The quality of cheap aftermarket exhausts leaves a lot to be desired; they are often noisier inside the car than the OEM fit.

I've been told that, thanks. I need to get myself under it for a look. I'm wondering if the manifold gasket is failing too

 

[jrkitching]

I'm wondering if the manifold gasket is failing too

On the 500 and Panda, there is a bracket which securely attaches the bottom of the cat to the gearbox housing; this is a critical support for the exhaust. They do tend to corrode away, leaving the whole weight of the front of the exhaust hanging on the manifold. If not corrected, the usual result is a cracked manifold and broken studs; an awkward repair.

I'd have thought this bracket should also be there on a KA (though I'm not certain).

Have a look at this post, which shows how this bracket corrodes away.

It should look like this.

 

[cheesesarnie]

On the 500 and Panda, there is a bracket which securely attaches the bottom of the cat to the gearbox housing; this is a critical support for the exhaust. They do tend to corrode away, leaving the whole weight of the front of the exhaust hanging on the manifold. If not corrected, the usual result is a cracked manifold and broken studs; an awkward repair.

I'd have thought this bracket should also be there on a KA (though I'm not certain).

Have a look at this post, which shows how this bracket corrodes away.

It should look like this.

Very handy, thank you...will have a look!

 

[Mike1alike]

It should look like this.

And this is the part number for that clamp: FA1 124-950 (Ø: 51mm).
As for the car being jerky, putting new intake manifold gaskets might be a great deal of help.

 

[jrkitching]

I need to get myself under it for a look

While you're down there, also take a look at the sump; well known for rusting through.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Hi

Wondered if you guys could help me. Realise theres likely more knowledge over here that in the little used KA forum. Recently acquired a 2012 low miler ford KA 1.2 mk2 for my daughter as a learner car.

Shes finding it jerky & noisy at low speed, shes got a point.
It definitely would benefit from a new clutch. Biting point near the top but it always changes gear ok, not grinding.
Its had a new cat back exhaust (2 months old - pre us) but it feels really boomy exhaust wise under the driver to me and at low speeds quite lumpy. A mechanic friend has had a quick look on the lift and can't obviously see any leaks on the exhaust.
It reminds me of driving a formula ford when in the pits! lumpy coming off and on the power.

Just wondered if you guys had any thoughts of normal problem areas on these.

Muchos thanks
Tony

Change the clutch slave cylinder and i expect it would improve substantially. I just did one of ours and was staggered how much easier and smoother it is to drive. Clean the MAP sensor and it will also help. CLean the throttle body too unless its spotless. If you take it off you may well find the inlet maifold is full of gunge. Clean this out too. These things seem to need regular attention and make a deal of difference.

 

[Mike1alike]

Change the clutch slave cylinder and i expect it would improve substantially.

And maybe the master one, too. But that one is easy to check if it's broken. It can brake in two ways. One obvious, when the inside seal towards the pedal gets worn out. That is obvious because liquid will leak underneath the pedal in that case. And the second one is when the inside seal towards the tip gets damaged and then, when you press the clutch pedal, if you look inside the fluid tank, when pedal goes above halfway stroke, fluid comes back inside the tank. Normally, fluid should come back only when you release the pedal.

 

[Ralf S.]

I would bleed the clutch first. The slave cylinder has a nipple but a separate screw to un-lock the flow, so don't put a spanner on the nipple (plastic and wont accept any abuse).

Once the clutch is bled, that should expose how good the clutch is. If the pedal is heavy or the clutch starts to slip when you boot it up hill etc. then change it. OE clutch is a LUK or Valeo. I only ever fit Valeo if I can help it.. that'll last the rest of the life of the car.

When you're replacing the clutch (sorry..! ) check out the condition of the slave cylinder. If it looks nasty, then now is a good time to change it.
Unfortunately.. it's connected to the master by an alloy QD fitting under the left wing box section.. so it corrodes and is never detachable again, never mind "quickly".

Option 1 (sensible/"book" option) is to buy a new master cylinder too. This and the new slave can then be fitted together at the same time.
Option 2 (skint/just paid for a new clutch) is to detach the slave hose from the old slave and fit it to the new slave.. thereby keeping the old everything else. The master cylinder is the more expensive component.. so it makes option 2 more tempting... but my OCD made me go Option 1..

The misfire/Formula Ford/Banger racer could be the manifold. As above, buy a new support bracket that helps keep it rigid vs the gearbox. To fit a new manifold gasket you will have to remove the lambda sensor... to get the heat shield off... to access the manifold nuts. Manifold is held in with studs and half of those will unscrew with the nut... you can buy some new studs and nuts or just re-use the old ones, treat them as bolts.

It may help/you might have to remove the radiator cooling fan, just to give yourself room to get the manifold out, If you're doing all this work yourself, I would probably remove the front bumper to give yourself light and spare elbow room around the battery box, gear linkages and clutch bell-housing.

Check the flexy.. it can split and blow .. but that tends to not make as much noise as you'd expect and your misfiring/hesitancy sounds more like the manifold. It's a fairly simple car to work on though.. just "compact" so don't worry about how many pieces you might need to remove to be able to do the simple stuff..


Ralf S.

 

[cheesesarnie]

Thanks all.

Update. Halfords advert flashed up for free clutch check. Took it down & they concluded the clutch is fine and it was the slave cylinder sticking which they greased and was better for 10 minutes.

Replaced the slave cylinder today (left old piping), existing fluid was a mess. Cloudy with bits floating in it. Bled it through with fresh dot4.

Result = no better.

Symptoms = biting point is random at each change. Occasionally at the floor. 50% of the time smooth 50% a mixed bag. Can't understand how it can vary. Starting to wish I'd change the master cylinder now (although don't really understand how that would effect things) sat on the driveway & watching the slave push the clutch it's fine. When out on the road things get different.

Also the union between pipe and slave was completely rusted. Wasn't expecting that. Joining to new slave required a bit of hassle.

Any more ideas?
Thanks

 

[The Panda Nut]

It sounds like the master cylinder may be at fault as well. You can oil the top of the clutch release pivot on top of the gearbox I found this helped. With clutch hydraulics sorted the clutch should be really nice to operate and the gear change smooth and reasonably slick. I find the clutch can be awful if either of the hydraulic cylinders are sticky. Changing the master cylinder is a simple task but more costly a part than the slave. Again I would not change the pipes. If the throttle body is dirty it can also make the engine a pain. The MAP sensor is fixed in the manifold under the airbox in fron of the driver by s single screw. Cleaning it with a little carb cleaner makes a pile of difference to the running as well. Crank case vapours are vented via pipes from teh cam cover to teh airbox and they tend to suck oil and water vapour into teh manifold adn this causes anaccumulation of mayo. The throttle body is easily removed and you can clean it and inside the manifold to good effect. If you remove the throttle body DONT overtighten the screws as they only require something like 6lb/ft to nip up. The silicon gasket is easily over-compressed and is expensive to replace. I would gibe these things a go as they cost almost nothing and I have found if done annually it makes a significant difference. While no ballof fire, the 1.2 will do the job and should be a really good 1st car. Both my daughters have Pandas and seem to get on really well with them.

 

[cheesesarnie]

Thank you. It's got to be the next job switching out the master cylinder!

 

[A3jeroen]

I take it you have bled the system properly?
I am a strong advocate of changing clutch fluid just as often as brakefluid (every 2 years).

gr J

 

[cheesesarnie]

I take it you have bled the system properly?
I am a strong advocate of changing clutch fluid just as often as brakefluid (every 2 years).

gr J

I think so but I'll be giving it another go for sure..when I do the master cylinder.

The fact sometimes a double pump of the clutch is needed to change gear makes me think it must be the master now..I hope

 

[irc]

Probably the master cylinder letting in air, but...

I've had had similar symptoms on a Panda and a 500, both of which turned out to be the "quick connector", which wasn't showing obvious of leakage, but which was obstructing flow and letting in air.
I only discovered this after I had changed master and slave cylinders on a Panda twice, having assumed that one of the new parts was faulty. Both times I re-used the pipe as the parts were supplied without.
When it still wasn't fixed I used a full LUK kit to replace the whole lot, which did fix it.
I took the quick connector apart on the bench (with a lot of brute force). It was seriously corroded internally and there was a slight weep of fluid visible on top of the join.
The fluid had been changed before I worked on it, so no clues there.

As the owner was just about to pay out for a new clutch it was a good result, and I nearly missed it.

Had a similar thing on a 500 about 6 months later, so rare, but possible. That time I got a good hint from the state of the fluid, which had grey/silvery bits in it as well as black ones.

 

[cheesesarnie]

It sounds like the master cylinder may be at fault as well. You can oil the top of the clutch release pivot on top of the gearbox I found this helped. With clutch hydraulics sorted the clutch should be really nice to operate and the gear change smooth and reasonably slick. I find the clutch can be awful if either of the hydraulic cylinders are sticky. Changing the master cylinder is a simple task but more costly a part than the slave. Again I would not change the pipes. If the throttle body is dirty it can also make the engine a pain. The MAP sensor is fixed in the manifold under the airbox in fron of the driver by s single screw. Cleaning it with a little carb cleaner makes a pile of difference to the running as well. Crank case vapours are vented via pipes from teh cam cover to teh airbox and they tend to suck oil and water vapour into teh manifold adn this causes anaccumulation of mayo. The throttle body is easily removed and you can clean it and inside the manifold to good effect. If you remove the throttle body DONT overtighten the screws as they only require something like 6lb/ft to nip up. The silicon gasket is easily over-compressed and is expensive to replace. I would gibe these things a go as they cost almost nothing and I have found if done annually it makes a significant difference. While no ballof fire, the 1.2 will do the job and should be a really good 1st car. Both my daughters have Pandas and seem to get on really well with them.

Thank you. That's MAP sensor removed and cleaned. Let's see if that improves it's running. One thing I did notice just now is a) back box really boomy. Assume because after market...we.ll survive. B) don't know why I did this but putting a hand over the exhaust for a few seconds caused fluid to drip out of the joint near the flexi pipe. Strange. Maybe need to check that joint!!

While running while parked, apart from the boomy exhaust everything sounds & runs good.

We.ll get there!

 

[Ralf S.]

56k on the original clutch.. and the temperamental behaviour... still sounds like the clutch.

Halfords might have had a peep at the friction plate.. but I've never changed a clutch where the friction plate had completely worn.. it was always something else.. release bearing, pressure plate forks, flywheel.. you name it.

I suspect your release bearing is eating its way through the pressure plate fingers and occasionally jamming in there, since some of the fingers might be missing or have bad grooves worn on them, so the pressure is not being applied evenly.

If your clutch is making a light whirring or scraping noise (engine running but in neutral) like wheeesh, wheeesh wheeesh... and the noise stops as soon as the clutch is pressed in, then that's what it is.


Ralf S.

 

[cheesesarnie]

56k on the original clutch.. and the temperamental behaviour... still sounds like the clutch.

Halfords might have had a peep at the friction plate.. but I've never changed a clutch where the friction plate had completely worn.. it was always something else.. release bearing, pressure plate forks, flywheel.. you name it.

I suspect your release bearing is eating its way through the pressure plate fingers and occasionally jamming in there, since some of the fingers might be missing or have bad grooves worn on them, so the pressure is not being applied evenly.

If your clutch is making a light whirring or scraping noise (engine running but in neutral) like wheeesh, wheeesh wheeesh... and the noise stops as soon as the clutch is pressed in, then that's what it is.


Ralf S.

Thanks. It could be that. There's no noise at neutral clutch in/out but inconclusive. This might end up like triggers Broom.

 

[cheesesarnie]

Clutch update. Just found if you hold down the clutch engine off randomly the slave cylinder starts to retract...and we.re happy it's fully bled.

Master cylinder on order!