Technical Long start (50-60 sec) 999c 1.0 Fire

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Technical Long start (50-60 sec) 999c 1.0 Fire

chesh

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Hello all
What could cause VERY LONG starting on cold engine? 999c 1.0 Fire engine
It takes almost 50 seconds of turning the starter, until the car runs.
When it runs, everything is good.
When I turn off the engine, and come back in 6-7 hours of work, it takes another 50 seconds of starting.
On hot it starts immediately.
I have inserted an electrical fuel pump on the same line but it won't help.
Fuel lines are new, without cracks. Carburator was rebuilt last year.
 
What are the engine compressions like?
I had a customer with a low mileage Ford Fiesta that would crank for ages from cold and it was poor compressions.
Do a compression test on all four cylinders from cold, then put some engine oil down the plug holes, spin it over with a cloth to catch the oil , then repeat the compression test exactly the same way as before and compare the readings.
I also had the same on a VW Polo 3 cylinder engine model, again only low mileage but due to engine design (short stroke) it used a lot of oil so customer often ran it low. The only way it could start was to fill engine oil to correct level, then put oil down the plug holes and it would start and run OK until he next ran it low!!!
I would expect readings to be around a minimum of 160 psi, on the ones I mentioned it was below 100psi, but once running it drove fine.
Let me/us know the outcome.:)
 
Just checked
Compressions are 175-180 on each cylinder so it's fine.
I checked again and saw this choke rod spring too loose, and also my the plastic that holds the rod is broken.
Don't know where to get these 2 because it doesn't exist on any Weber 32tlf build kits.
 

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Just checked
Compressions are 175-180 on each cylinder so it's fine.
I checked again and saw this choke rod spring too loose, and also my the plastic that holds the rod is broken.
Don't know where to get these 2 because it doesn't exist on any Weber 32tlf build kits.
Glad your compressions are all good, it means that what ever is the cause is got to be a lot cheaper to fix:).
It may not be your problem but a small bit of locking wire should hold the plastic clip in place until you can get a part.
When engine is cold and air cleaner is off, actuate the choke lever /knob all the way out (if manual operation) press the accelerator down once to allow choke flap to fully activate and then gently press the choke flap at top of carb, you should feel a spring loaded resistance that you can overcome but that isn't floppy.
This is so when engine starts and needs more air the choke flap will move against the spring pressure and allow more air in.
The reason for pressing the accelerator initially is to allow the choke flap to close as far as it is meant to and allow the "fast idle" position so the engine doesn't stall due to the restriction of air flow by the choke flap.
You can see what I mean if you activate the mechanism manually with air cleaner off and engine switched off too.
Not your problem in this case but only press the accelerator pedal down once, some people press repeatedly causing the accelerator pump jet to flood the engine.
Before most cars went to fuel injection as an apprentice in the late 1960s and early 70s we were always having to reset auto and manual chokes. mechanisms.
 
Glad your compressions are all good, it means that what ever is the cause is got to be a lot cheaper to fix:).
It may not be your problem but a small bit of locking wire should hold the plastic clip in place until you can get a part.
When engine is cold and air cleaner is off, actuate the choke lever /knob all the way out (if manual operation) press the accelerator down once to allow choke flap to fully activate and then gently press the choke flap at top of carb, you should feel a spring loaded resistance that you can overcome but that isn't floppy.
This is so when engine starts and needs more air the choke flap will move against the spring pressure and allow more air in.
The reason for pressing the accelerator initially is to allow the choke flap to close as far as it is meant to and allow the "fast idle" position so the engine doesn't stall due to the restriction of air flow by the choke flap.
You can see what I mean if you activate the mechanism manually with air cleaner off and engine switched off too.
Not your problem in this case but only press the accelerator pedal down once, some people press repeatedly causing the accelerator pump jet to flood the engine.
Before most cars went to fuel injection as an apprentice in the late 1960s and early 70s we were always having to reset auto and manual chokes. mechanisms.

Thanks bugsymike.

I have a different problem when the engine has detonation/pinging sound around 2000-3000rpm only when accelerate. it's like trying to accelerate on 4th gear at the start of it.
Engine is perfectly timed by a timing light.
When I move the distributor almost all the way to the firewall (advanced), I no longer have that detonation sound, but the car runs lean.
Should I set it with the light first to the book's settings (0-4 degrees) or should I move it to when I don't hear detonations and then open the air/fuel mixture bolt?
 
Thanks bugsymike.

I have a different problem when the engine has detonation/pinging sound around 2000-3000rpm only when accelerate. it's like trying to accelerate on 4th gear at the start of it.
Engine is perfectly timed by a timing light.
When I move the distributor almost all the way to the firewall (advanced), I no longer have that detonation sound, but the car runs lean.
Should I set it with the light first to the book's settings (0-4 degrees) or should I move it to when I don't hear detonations and then open the air/fuel mixture bolt?

I have checked and I'm getting high vacuum on this pipe that goes from the carb when engine is idle.
A mechanic told me I should get a vacuum only when pressing the gas pedal.
true?
 

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Thanks bugsymike.

I have a different problem when the engine has detonation/pinging sound around 2000-3000rpm only when accelerate. it's like trying to accelerate on 4th gear at the start of it.
Engine is perfectly timed by a timing light.
When I move the distributor almost all the way to the firewall (advanced), I no longer have that detonation sound, but the car runs lean.
Should I set it with the light first to the book's settings (0-4 degrees) or should I move it to when I don't hear detonations and then open the air/fuel mixture bolt?
Hi Chesh, I think part of the problem is the fuel quality these days is not what the cars were designed to run on, so what I would do with regards to timing, is set as per makers guide, that may be a static position or at low idle with vacuum pipe off and then road test and retard it a little at a time to just lose the detonation/ pinking under normal driving conditions. Do this with the vacuum pipe connected so as in normal running conditions. Also in hot weather engines are more likely to "pink".
Modern computer controlled cars use "knock" sensors etc. to overcome the lower grade fuel etc.
I think you get max vacuum with closed throttle, but it was a long time ago. Though I seem to recall in the old days cars had vacuum operated wipers in the 1950s, they were discontinued when people realised the faster they went the slower the wipers worked due to less vacuum from the engine;).
You can test if you have your strobe timing light and remove vacuum pipe at different throttle openings to compare.
It may be worth checking that any advance and retard springs in the mechanical mechanism and the bob weights there are working as they should do as when worn they can cause "over advance" of the timing. Also if you have a max. advance position in your data check the distributor isn't exceeding that.
None of this should affect the carb regards running "lean", though I have noticed carbs running weak are more likely to pink than ones running rich which seem more forgiving.
An air/vacuum leak can also cause that.
By the way the air/fuel mixture bolt/screw you referred to will only adjust the idle mixture at tick over, so when driving hard on the road it is the main jet etc. inside the carb that control that.
Another thing that can cause "pinking" for example after coasting down a hill then accelerating up a steep hill in a high gear, is if an engine is a little worn and oil vapour is drawn into the intake which has the affect of reducing the "octane" rating of the fuel causing pinking, this may also cause smoke at the exhaust the same time.
 
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