Technical Locking wheel nuts

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Technical Locking wheel nuts

WitleyPanda

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So the newest to the fleet seems to have a tracking issue. Have a spare set of wheels, so was going to put on a good set and off to laser tracking rig. But wheel bolts seem to be never to have been lubricated ( I know the marmite debate about lubrication on bolts) or over torqued. So three just about came out with a large breaker bar, but, Sod’s Law, fourth sheared the remover. These bolts have the anti force slip ring and shielded in the alloys. Obviously need a replacement extractor and will replace all the bolts with new ones.

But ideas to remove the last locking bolts?
 
Model
4x4 1.3MJ Antarctic
Year
2013
Mileage
89000
So the newest to the fleet seems to have a tracking issue. Have a spare set of wheels, so was going to put on a good set and off to laser tracking rig. But wheel bolts seem to be never to have been lubricated ( I know the marmite debate about lubrication on bolts) or over torqued. So three just about came out with a large breaker bar, but, Sod’s Law, fourth sheared the remover. These bolts have the anti force slip ring and shielded in the alloys. Obviously need a replacement extractor and will replace all the bolts with new ones.

But ideas to remove the last locking bolts?
Some tyre fitters have wheel lock removing tools, but in depends on the type of locking wheel nut.
You may end up resorting to violence, but have to be very careful not to damage the alloy wheels.:(
If you get someway towards loosening it, you may find having the other wheel nuts loose on the wheel with it jacked up and the wheel wriggled/pulled around a bit, the movement may reduce the tension on the damaged locking wheel nut.
 
Some tyre fitters have wheel lock removing tools, but in depends on the type of locking wheel nut.
You may end up resorting to violence, but have to be very careful not to damage the alloy wheels.:(
If you get someway towards loosening it, you may find having the other wheel nuts loose on the wheel with it jacked up and the wheel wriggled/pulled around a bit, the movement may reduce the tension on the damaged locking wheel nut.
I’m going with violence ! The features are masked by the broken key material and these have the free sleeves. So remove sleeve with cold chisels, then a IRWIN left hand twist extractor. Will put a larger plastic sleeve in the nut surround to protect wheel, but ultimately if it get damaged, less of an issue.
I had fun trying to remove a neighbour’s car wheel, legitimately, failed and AA used a hammer in tool, but even that went through 3 tips/plugs before finally yielding.
 
I’m going with violence ! The features are masked by the broken key material and these have the free sleeves. So remove sleeve with cold chisels, then a IRWIN left hand twist extractor. Will put a larger plastic sleeve in the nut surround to protect wheel, but ultimately if it get damaged, less of an issue.
I had fun trying to remove a neighbour’s car wheel, legitimately, failed and AA used a hammer in tool, but even that went through 3 tips/plugs before finally yielding.
I did have similar on a Ford Focus some years ago, and once the free wheeling stuff was out the way I hammered an old socket the wrong size over it and then along with the undoing the other wheel nuts and wrenching the wheel about so it took the tension of the locking wheel nut enough for me to undo it. The locking nuts with the wavy security bit seem most vulnerable to failure, I suspect if done up with an impact gun in the past, knowing what they are like I always try to make sure they are not overtightened and only with hand tools.
 
I know the marmite debate about lubrication on bolts
This post illustrates well why I'm on the side that lubricates their wheel bolts.

Some caveats:

1. Always degrease and re-lubricate the bolts when removing/replacing a wheel (in a roadside emergency, remove, degrease and replace when you get home). Even a tiny piece of dirt or grit in the grease will make it impossible to torque them properly.

2. Never tighten greased bolts to more than 2/3 of the dry torque specification, or you'll risk damaging the threads through overtightening.

3. Don't let anyone else refit a wheel with greased bolts, or they'll likely overtorque the bolts.

I've been greasing wheel bolts for 50 years, and have never had one loosen in service.
 
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This post illustrates well why I'm on the side that lubricates their wheel bolts.

Some caveats:

1. Always degrease and re-lubricate the bolts when removing/replacing a wheel (in a roadside emergency, remove, degrease and replace when you get home). Even a tiny piece of dirt or grit in the grease will make it impossible to torque them properly.

2. Never tighten greased bolts to more than 2/3 of the dry torque specification, or you'll risk damaging the threads through overtightening.

3. Don't let anyone else refit a wheel with greased bolts, or they'll likely overtorque the bolts.

I've been greasing wheel bolts for 50 years, and have never had one loosen in service.
I agree, since 1969 as an apprentice I have always used a standard garage spider wheel brace and if threads look dry I have cleaned with a wire brush and personally used a small drop of copper slip (hear the big gasp from some quarters:)) once spun up firm the car is dropped back on the ground and the same spider wheel brace is used with that experience to finish tightening to my satisfaction.
I have never had a wheel come loose and never felt the need to use a torque wrench to check my work on wheel nuts, this includes over 40 years with my own business and regular repeat customers.
Some years ago there was reports of wheels coming loose or wheels breaking on ambulances etc. I think it was Bedford CFs from memory, I suspect the cause was tyre fitters using powerful airguns with little experience. As a result it became popular for everyone to grab a torque wrench to do wheel nuts.
 
I had a locking wheel nut key break a few months ago.
Luckily I had the code, a slip of paper in the box, and my local dealer had one in stock.
Good luck.

Spike
Mine sheared, entirely blocked the interface channel, so even a replacement would have been useless. Tried to remove by picking with a scriber, no joy, hence the violence.
 
I agree, since 1969 as an apprentice I have always used a standard garage spider wheel brace and if threads look dry I have cleaned with a wire brush and personally used a small drop of copper slip (hear the big gasp from some quarters:)) once spun up firm the car is dropped back on the ground and the same spider wheel brace is used with that experience to finish tightening to my satisfaction.
I have never had a wheel come loose and never felt the need to use a torque wrench to check my work on wheel nuts, this includes over 40 years with my own business and regular repeat customers.
Some years ago there was reports of wheels coming loose or wheels breaking on ambulances etc. I think it was Bedford CFs from memory, I suspect the cause was tyre fitters using powerful airguns with little experience. As a result it became popular for everyone to grab a torque wrench to do wheel nuts.
Ah, the "great debate" as to whether to use a torque wrench on wheel nuts?

I have a general rule which is - If the threads show obvious signs of lubrication, and it's often the likes of copper grease in my experience, so relatively easy to see, then I don't torque them. Why? because there's a very real risk of stripping threads or even worse of stretching threads leading to failure. A stretched thread is potentially the worse of the two options because it leads you to believe you've tightened it correctly (because the wrench clicked) but it can then later slacken due to the weakened threads. If you're still intent on using a torque wrench on a lubricated thread then how do you decide what to set it to? Within limits it's a pure guess isn't it?

If the thread is dry then by all means use a torque wrench, BUT, I mean a good quality tool. I'm not at all impressed with cheap internet type bargain wrenches. I've messed about with some of these owned by enthusiast friends (I got particularly interested in this after buying my digital torque adaptor) and, in general, what I found was that they were moderately accurate around the middle of the range they covered, but got progressively more inaccurate towards the limits - both high and low - of their range. Even quality wrenches suffer this problem - ie that they are only really accurate around the middle of range but they are much better at being within "acceptable" results towards the extremes. Also a "big name" "expensive" wrench will tend to be much nearer the true torque you are hoping to achieve. My understanding is that digital wrenches, or adaptors like the one I have, are less affected by range inaccuracy as they work with strain guages rather than springs and levers (so friction of moving parts in the measuring elements is not a problem.

So, when I'm working on a vehicle I'm not familiar with - which, at my age, is less often now a days. But I do still help out neighbours and friends with stuff like over tightened wheel nits etc. First thing I'm looking for is whether there's evidence of lubricant. If there is then I'm not going to bother breaking out the torque wrench. I think trying to clean out existing lubricant is too difficult to be sure you've got rid of it all so I don't try. Obviously, if the wrench can be used then tightness isn't an issue, but what about when you decide not to use the wrench? Well, then it's all down to "feel" and that's only something which comes with experience. Those of us who've put in the time on the shop floor will tell you that, after you've stripped and broken a number of different sized fittings you develop a definite feel for how tight is "tight enough". It was one of the most difficult things I tried to teach back when I was a trade trainer. I must have tightened thousands of wheel nuts on cars and smaller vans in my time and you just get a feel for how tight to do these things up. So, like Mike, I don't have a problem with doing it by hand but I like to use my good old Britool power bar, which I've had since I first started out, wouldn't necessarily trust my "feel" using the new, and slightly longer, Clarke bar I bought about 10 years ago from Machine Mart - It's all about "feel" and you've just got to learn that on your own.

Power tools? I first encountered air wrenches when I worked at "Tyre and Auto". There was one on the end of each airline - six ramps sharing them. They were always set to full air delivery and with a workshop compressor pressure of around 150psi they would have torn the bottom out of the Titanic without breaking sweat! I very quickly learnt they were a big asset for undoing wheel nuts but never ever to use them for tightening. These wrenches do have adjustment which limits torque, but that's dependent on supply pressure and that someone else doesn't tamper with it. I always hand tightened wheel nuts/studs and quickly learned how tight was "tight 'nuff". I would never use an airgun on a wheel security bolt but it seems common practice in many workshops, 'specially faster fit type operations. There are several of these near me which I pass when out walking and it's very rare to go past without hearing the familiar whiney rattle of one in use. Fair to say though that I have seen a torque wrench at the Kwik Fit near the library. It was one of the things which impressed me about Steven, my mobile tyre fitting man, he seems to reserve his air gun for emergencies only and uses a torque wrench for retightening - a digital one at that.

And one final thought - I now don't lubricate wheel nuts/bolts because, due to my increasing age and the limitations it's imposing on my body, My cars are having to go into the local workshops for more complex repairs and it's likely someone will use air tools and torque wheel nuts etc. I do always apply anti seize to stop alloy wheels seizing to the hubs though and slacken and retighten wheel nuts when I get the car back - no good finding a wheel nut is too tight to deal with if out on the road trying to deal with a wheel change!
 
Locking wheel nuts

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Just sayin' ....... :LOL: ;)
 
I must have tightened thousands of wheel nuts on cars and smaller vans in my time and you just get a feel for how tight to do these things up.
Another complicating factor is the difference between steel and alloy wheels.

Steel wheels by design have an element of 'spring' in them; the centre of the wheel essentially acts like a large disc spring washer. This provides some of the clamping force that's holding the wheel in place, and makes unwanted loosening less likely.

Alloys have essentially no give in the wheel itself; the entirety of the clamping force is provided by the elastic deformation of the threads. This is one reason why recommended torque figures for alloys are often higher than those for steels.

The difference is very noticeable when fitting a wheel; with steels, you'll get a further half turn, or maybe more, after the initial resistance is felt. With alloys, practically none.

There's a huge margin of safety with steels; less so for alloys.

If you're still intent on using a torque wrench on a lubricated thread then how do you decide what to set it to
You could start with a lookup table showing the proof load for the size and material specification of lubricated bolts.
 
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Another complicating factor is the difference between steel and alloy wheels.

Steel wheels by design have an element of 'spring' in them; the centre of the wheel is essentially a large disc spring washer. This provides some of the clamping force that's holding the wheel in place, and makes unwanted loosening less likely.

Alloys have essentially no give in the wheel itself; the entirety of the clamping force is provided by the elastic deformation of the threads. This is one reason why recommended torque figures for alloys are often higher than those for steels.

The difference is very noticeable when fitting a wheel; with steels, you'll get a further half turn, or maybe more, after the initial resistance is felt. With alloys, practically none.

There's a huge margin for error with steels; less so for alloys.


You could start with a lookup table showing the proof load for the size and material specification of the bolts.

That reminds me of my last car, I bought some (genuine) steelies and fitted winter tyres to them...

The very first time I put them on, I just re-used the (genuine) bolts that were on for the alloys (I'd only just got this set of (genuine) chromed bolts as an accessory pack (hold that thought)

So I went to torque the first wheel up 100Nm (or was it 105?) ..... anyway I was waiting for the click ... it never came , double checked the setting , spot on, tried the wrench on another wheel just to make sure and it clicked off perfectly...

Went back to the steel I was putting on and didn't realise 'til it was too late , 105Nm was crushing and fatally deforming the wheel !!!!

I got a replacement steelie and they found out the bolts for the alloys were not suitable for steelies !!!
So I used the basic steel bolts that came with the car and they nipped up to 105Nm perfectly !!

(The bolts for the alloys had a 45degree rotating captive 'washer' )
 
Another complicating factor is the difference between steel and alloy wheels.

Steel wheels by design have an element of 'spring' in them; the centre of the wheel is essentially a large disc spring washer. This provides some of the clamping force that's holding the wheel in place, and makes unwanted loosening less likely.

Alloys have essentially no give in the wheel itself; the entirety of the clamping force is provided by the elastic deformation of the threads. This is one reason why recommended torque figures for alloys are often higher than those for steels.

The difference is very noticeable when fitting a wheel; with steels, you'll get a further half turn, or maybe more, after the initial resistance is felt. With alloys, practically none.

There's a huge margin of safety with steels; less so for alloys.


You could start with a lookup table showing the proof load for the size and material specification of lubricated bolts.
Yes, The "give" factor is easy to feel when comparing doing up nuts on a steel compared to an alloy. The nut/bolt seems to go from "slack" to "hard" feeling and tight within a fraction of a turn. I always liked steels for everyday use anyway. Much more forgiving and far cheaper to replace if necessary. Diamond cut finish seems to be very popular of late but have you noticed how quickly these seem to start corroding? even when compared to the more traditional coated finishes.
 
Diamond cut finish seems to be very popular of late but have you noticed how quickly these seem to start corroding
Lacquered diamond cut wheels are basically not fit for purpose if used in countries which apply salt to the roads in winter.

And you're right - it's hard to find a new car without them now, and even harder to find one with steels.
 
That reminds me of my last car, I bought some (genuine) steelies and fitted winter tyres to them...

The very first time I put them on, I just re-used the (genuine) bolts that were on for the alloys (I'd only just got this set of (genuine) chromed bolts as an accessory pack (hold that thought)

So I went to torque the first wheel up 100Nm (or was it 105?) ..... anyway I was waiting for the click ... it never came , double checked the setting , spot on, tried the wrench on another wheel just to make sure and it clicked off perfectly...

Went back to the steel I was putting on and didn't realise 'til it was too late , 105Nm was crushing and fatally deforming the wheel !!!!

I got a replacement steelie and they found out the bolts for the alloys were not suitable for steelies !!!
So I used the basic steel bolts that came with the car and they nipped up to 105Nm perfectly !!

(The bolts for the alloys had a 45degree rotating captive 'washer' )
Often bolts for alloys are not compatible with steelies. Not just in terms of the chamfer angle but also length. bolts for alloys are often longer and can foul stuff like calipers etc with dangerous and expensive consequencies when used with a steel wheel. Horses for courses eh?
 
I did manage to get a free replacement steelie because they ** were as puzzled as I was prior to finding out the bolts were incompatible

(** a main merc dealer !!)
The chromed bolts were a good length (that's what she said) - same as the original steel bolts.
But a few years down the line water gets under the chrome and they start to blister and then they're only fit for the bin , you will struggle to get the socket on the head!!
 
Often bolts for alloys are not compatible with steelies.
With aftermarket wheels, definitely, you need to be careful.

OEM wheels often have interchangeable bolts; certainly the Fiat 500 & Panda use the same bolts for factory steels and alloys. Remember that whatever bolts are used, they also need to work safely with the spacesaver spare.
 
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