Technical Little seals in head gasket set.

[Trusham]

I have a head gasket set and am trying to figure out where the 8 little seals go.
They are steel cups about 10mm dia with seals inside. Nothing came out of the engine that look like them and I cant find any place I can stuff them in.
Guessing it’s a universal kit and they fit in another engine.

 

[dave]

they are valve stem seals

 

[Trusham]

Doh.
Perhaps I should do them now the head is off. Guess I need a special tool to compress the springs of can it be frigged.

 

[dave]

you need spring compressor about £15

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

Doh.
Perhaps I should do them now the head is off. Guess I need a special tool to compress the springs of can it be frigged.

Hi Trusham,

I would definately do them, last time we did the head gasket we left those alone and now the engine is shall we say a very messy engine and kicks a lot of oil/water (congealed goo) out the breather. At least thats what I have come to beleive as it cant be the head gasket again. Unless its been blowing for the last 5 years while doing at times 80 on the motorway!!

Cheers,
Si

 

[dave]

Hi Trusham,

I would definately do them, last time we did the head gasket we left those alone and now the engine is shall we say a very messy engine and kicks a lot of oil/water (congealed goo) out the breather. At least thats what I have come to beleive as it cant be the head gasket again. Unless its been blowing for the last 5 years while doing at times 80 on the motorway!!

Cheers,
Si

no water would come out of valve stems

 

[Chas Uno]

Hi Trusham,

I would definately do them, last time we did the head gasket we left those alone and now the engine is shall we say a very messy engine and kicks a lot of oil/water (congealed goo) out the breather. At least thats what I have come to beleive as it cant be the head gasket again. Unless its been blowing for the last 5 years while doing at times 80 on the motorway!!

Cheers,
Si

I agree with Dave. Sounds more like worn rings - crankcase pressurisation causing excess vapour/ pressure to be forced through the breather - than valve seals.

 

[sixpotman]

did you do a compression test prior to dismantling
the head.

If the heads off turn the crank until all pistons
are half way down the cylinder and pour derv
or parrafin to a level and leave overnight
if the rings are worn you will loose a level.
See if ther is a ridge near the top of the cylinder
as well.

John

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

I agree with Dave. Sounds more like worn rings - crankcase pressurisation causing excess vapour/ pressure to be forced through the breather - than valve seals.

Thinking about it, that does make a lot more sence. The water component has had me baffled for sometime now, but as you say warn rings could introduce vapour into the crank case. Would this result in noticeable power/compression loss though? As compression seems fine, and the engine runs quite well at the moment (when its warm at least!...damn auto choke).

Thanks for the corrections anyway, sometimes it just takes a few more minds on the problem! Are the warning signs of worn piston rings anything to be worried about at this stage?

Either way, definately worth doing the valve seals whilst its in peices. Hope the job goes smoothly!

Si

 

[sixpotman]

If your fitting the valve stem seals you may
as well grind and re seat the valve seats when
they are dismantled.

John

 

[Trusham]

On the other hand……….
Just been chatting with a mechanic mate in the pub who says leave the valves alone if there is no problem.
If you grind them in you will have to measure and order new cup shims. A whole world of pain for a glorified lawnmower that rarely gets out of first gear.

 

[dave]

normally you get away with only having to buy 1 or 2 shims as you swap them around, its a lot easier to shim up when the head is off, and you end up with a nice quite engine, shims only 3 quid each

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

On the other hand……….
Just been chatting with a mechanic mate in the pub who says leave the valves alone if there is no problem.
If you grind them in you will have to measure and order new cup shims. A whole world of pain for a glorified lawnmower that rarely gets out of first gear.

Out of curiosity... is your panda actually used for cutting grass!?
That would be a new frontier for the little car!! haha. Also, what panda do you have? Excuse me if I am prying, I am allways on a look out for another mk1 4x4 (pre '86) owner to talk to. Its sad but it is difficult when there are few people around who know the car. Most people have to think back to 10 years ago or more to when they used to have one of them.

Si

 

[default_user]

It's not really a Panda any more. In fact, it's less of a Panda than mine...

Check out the gallery for his picture.

 

[Trusham]

Si.
I think mine is 86 or 87, I don’t have the body anymore and have misplaced all docs for it, including the Haynes manual which is a real pain. No worries though, for the last 10 years it has lugged stuff around my land and has been badly abused, often loaded until the leaf springs are reversed. I have had a roller on it many times and was considering a big flymo type thing for underneath and a crane/hoist for the back.
It had no bonnet for 5 years and was left out in the rain but started every time.
Now its getting resurrected as nothing else would quite do the job. I was considering minimilising my Diesel 3 door Range Rover or maybe starting again with a Suzuki jeep or old Subaru but the panda makeover got the vote (from err indoors).

The valves are not getting done yet. Its was running OK and I have no time.

Having to rush it a bit now as its needed back in service and I have a long list of other jobs. I will grind off and paint the frame and weld on a suspension stop for the leaf springs. It needs a new seat so will probably use a plastic school type as the rain will run off and there are hundreds down the tip.

Will post some pics in ‘show us your panda’ when I get a minute.

 

[sixpotman]

No wonder your getting water in the oil then there's
me thinking it was still on the road
It's not running long enough to clear the condensation
out of the inside of the rocker cover and having
no bonnet won't help either.

John

 

[Chas Uno]

No wonder your getting water in the oil then there's
me thinking it was still on the road
It's not running long enough to clear the condensation
out of the inside of the rocker cover and having
no bonnet won't help either.

John

It's Si (pandamonius_maximus) who's having the problem with water in oil, not the guy with no bonnet (Trusham)!

 

[sixpotman]

Oops then sorry

John

 

[selecta man]

Is it a practical way to change these valve stem oil seals without taking the cylinder head off. IE putting nylon cord down the plug holes to hold the valves up, or using compressed air.
I might add on a 82k mile engine the valve play in the guides is usually about .oo6 thou while if i remember right the maximum play in the book is .0028 thou.

 

[sixpotman]

Is it a practical way to change these valve stem oil seals without taking the cylinder head off. IE putting nylon cord down the plug holes to hold the valves up, or using compressed air.
I might add on a 82k mile engine the valve play in the guides is usually about .oo6 thou while if i remember right the maximum play in the book is .0028 thou.

I have known nylon cord be packed into the cylinder through the
plug hole then that cylinder be cranked up to the top to hold the
valves in place (on a 24v head) so it is feasible but don't loose
the end of the cord.

There are kits available to use compressed air to hold
the valves up but not worth it unless your doing multiple
engines. (sykes pykavant)

John