Technical Karolis Punto 75 Turbo project

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Technical Karolis Punto 75 Turbo project

Fingers if you look at my last post I edited and added a link to Garrett which explains the situation (for Garrett at least).

I would say any restriction required is built into the turbo it self, adding restriction in the feed line for a journal turbo is only going to make matters worse. IIRC my turbo has a very small hole to the outlet fitting (in the turbo casting) I will check next time I'm able. However I can't see it possibly working any other way. Like you say just like a fuel pressure regulator on a return line system...
 
So now my lecture :D My amateur research told me this. My turbo is ball bearing and needs a reduction in a form of a plug with a tiny hole in the feed line of 1-1.5mm. The most trustworthy source in PL said 1.2mm, so this is what I did in the end. No banjo bolts reductions, these were too big for me. The turbo lives fine and is slowly closing 50kkm of milage.

Then I talked to folks at dp-engineering in NL on a couple of occassions. You probably do not know them (they also make beatiful tabular manifolds), but they have a very good record of turboing all sorts of cars. They said: 0.9mm restrictor for ball bearing turbos, no restrictor for journal bearing turbos. Period.

Similar things can be found in the "Maximum boost book", which BTW I only browsed hence did not dare to talk about it in Honeymonster's thread.

Fingers, you are in principle right about increased pressure/reduced flow by using a restrictor. But that only holds if you keep the restriction all the way to the destination. Putting a fat line just after the restrictor or having any other sort of "decompression chamber" changes things, no?
 
I was under the impression you were getting excessive heat due to the undersized turbo rather than the undersized intercooler?

Well, both, IC still helps to harness the heat from an undersized turbo.

Was your wastegate playing up when you tuned to detonation on the RR?

No, it started playing after prolonged periods of not making the WG move by gentlish driving, that is, boosting, but never to the max. It just got stuck.

Detotantion I inflicted on the car by my own will and almost inflicted a heart attack of the dyno operator at the same time. But he was professional and kept the engine under load (2-3 s. IIRC) until I sorted out what I wanted to sort out :D

Did you ever calculate the theoretical maximum output for your turbo using the compressor map?

Yes, I think I did that once, but there is no good quality map for this turbo, so these were only good guesses / estimates. I think at 1 bar that is it.
 
But you'll loose the warning light...........


Second hand. Get a new one, they're cheap enough.



For LPG you need LPG injectors. It's certainly a better fuel than petrol.

Why I loose the light? I would like to make in what to use both sensors on same "hole" (standard warning light). In this way I have warning light and pressure sensor at same place and no T.

For fuel pump I don't know if to leave standard punto 75 pump or putting gt, considering the fact that will run on petrol only 5% of time. For LPG injectors I know that I'll have to modify the system (reductor and injectors), but there everything is simpler.

For the restriction, my head is now smoking :D
 
If you run 2 maps (and have some regime for sticking to them) you should be able to get away with the smaller pump.

But the first time you forget, something will melt.

If it's optimised for LPG, it'll run pretty close to autodestruct on petrol anyway. You really need a automatic way of switching maps.

Could you forget about petrol altogether?
 
Im in the process of assembling the MS2 which I hope be ready next week !!

What do you guys do to fit the turbo ? Do you use stock exhaust manifold, or would it be as low as the oil sump ?

And for the turbo oil feed, i was thinking about fitting a GT oil cooler and the turbo would be fed by the supply hose, from the oil pump to the cooler, bad idea ?!?!
 
Easiest way to do it is to cut the bottom off the stock manifold and weld on a thick -- 10mm or so -- plate to take the turbo -- the welding isnt that simple (iron to steel) but can be done either by a place that makes gates (arc, with a dissimilar rod) or TIG (generally with stainless rod). The outlet on the turbo must be higher than the full level of the sump, ideally higher still.

Take the supply for the turbo from the top (filtered) hex head on the oil filter casting. It's way easier than your way.

Don't "think" about fitting an oil cooler: the tubs need one even in the UK in winter. Fit one!

Most of this stuff is in the Cinq/Sei section and in the books in that section.
 
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If you run 2 maps (and have some regime for sticking to them) you should be able to get away with the smaller pump.

But the first time you forget, something will melt.

If it's optimised for LPG, it'll run pretty close to autodestruct on petrol anyway. You really need a automatic way of switching maps.

Could you forget about petrol altogether?

Petrol is only for starting, warming up and going to lpg station when lpg ends.

Obviuosly I don't want to go so extreme ignition advance setup like running only lpg, because that's not good for switching to petrol, or maybe some error, confusion etc, "if an problem can come out, it will be at the worst moment" :D

I could forgot about petrol, leave everything like is now (so no boost running) because all main running will be on lpg, but don't like the idea, because if something wrong is with lpg, it switches to petrol automatically, and if it comes during a wot run, the conseguences could be very bad. Too stupid breaking an engine in this way.

I think going punto gt injectors and standard p75 pump, should be safety enough for 100-120 hp (first step).
 
Happy Christmas first of all !!

I went to a guy who does custom exhausts and told me that to modify the existing fire manifold is very dangerous, and that there is no guarantee of the result since it is made of Cast Iron. His advise was to do an adapter or fabricate a new exhaust. What have most of you done please ?!

thanks,
neil
 
Happy Christmas first of all !!

I went to a guy who does custom exhausts and told me that to modify the existing fire manifold is very dangerous, and that there is no guarantee of the result since it is made of Cast Iron. His advise was to do an adapter or fabricate a new exhaust. What have most of you done please ?!

thanks,
neil

By far the majority have modified the standard exhausts by the cut and weld on a substantial plate method.

Yes, it does involve dissimilar welding.
Yes, it wouldn't be an ideal choice
Yes, sometimes the welds crack (generally small cracks which can be fairly easily spotted)

But, the majority stay intact. You can buy dissimilar arc rods, or TIG with stainless rod. In both cases, pre-heating and slow cooling (warm workshop, no draughts) are pretty much essential.

The folk with most experience of dissimilar welding tend to be the folk who do "wrought iron" gates. Or talk to a "real" welding company. Many folk doing custom exhausts are not coded, and have very limited experience of anything but simple MIG welding.

A bolt on adaptor will site the oil return far too low. This will destroy the turbo very quickly indeed.

It's possible to make a manifold out of so-called "weld-els". These are thick sections of tubing (available in various bends and straight sections) in steel and stainless. They're used for high pressure steam or chemical processes, and are thick, which is important for strength, durability, and heat retention. This is a better way of doing it, but unless you can do the fabrication yourself, it'll be expensive.

The "original" Cinq turbos all used a cut'n shut standard manifold.........
 
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I think i ll be going to some other guys maybe ill get it done very soon !

about MS2, im having a little problem regarding the coil drtivers. The coils in a FIRE engine are directly driven from the ecu is that correct ?! and so which steps should I follow on the manual ?! Should this be Wiring the high current driver ??

thanks,
neil
 
The Ms problems seem to get bigger at the end of the assembly lol ! is yours ready or you are still building it ?
 
Bip373 drivers are needed for you. Don't know nothing more and exact because still have no ms.
 
I discovered MSExtra .. it's the best forum for MS !!! you should try it, even the manuals are better than the MegaManual
 
Does anybody use Audi / VW 1.8T K03 turbos on turboed fiat engines? How it goes?
 
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