Just joined

[Keith in Bristol]

Hi guys, I've just joined the group as I'm having some issues with a Ducato twin EGR minibus that I've just purchased, P041 and limp mode. Although the garage is taking it back in to resolve I'm curious to see if it's a problem model.
The forum explains how the system works and from what I understand the big issue is understanding the fault codes can be very misleading. For example the garage replaced the EGR as per the fault code before sale, yet within 300 miles I have the same problem.
I've purchased MultiEcuScan but still in the learning phase.
I suspect I have a blocked intercooler, a detachment of the intercooler sleeve from the throttle body (outstanding Fiat recall) or maybe need the ECU updating as it has never been done (2017 manufacture).
Looking forward to seeing the numerous posts on the subject.

 

[jackwhoo]

There is a massive 300 + page thread related to your van issues

 

[jackwhoo]

@Fredastaire

 

[Keith in Bristol]

There is a massive 300 + page thread related to your van issues

Thanks, I'm going through it, it will take a while.

 

[Fredastaire]

@Keith in Bristol , if you have only just bought the Ducato from a dealer then you ought to investigate returning it to them for a full refund.
.
I started the big extensive main forum post on this matter. I would ask that you join us on there.
.
To clarify your wording, it's the LP EGR cooler that will be blocked, not the intercooler. Albeit the intercooler will need flushing through.
.
To check in detail get in touch with @theoneandonly and use his template 7 and go for a drive collecting the data as a CSV file.
.
If indeed your Ducato has the well known fault then you start needing a DPF £4000 plus a cooler £600 plus needing software issues 28 or 32. Then there are other parts as identified in the main post..
.
May we ask how much you paid for the van? Repair might cost the same again.
.
Do please keep us informed.
.
Where are you based? Oops, must be Bristol

 

[Keith in Bristol]

@Keith in Bristol , if you have only just bought the Ducato from a dealer then you ought to investigate returning it to them for a full refund.
.
I started the big extensive main forum post on this matter. I would ask that you join us on there.
.
To clarify your wording, it's the LP EGR cooler that will be blocked, not the intercooler. Albeit the intercooler will need flushing through.
.
To check in detail get in touch with @theoneandonly and use his template 7 and go for a drive collecting the data as a CSV file.
.
If indeed your Ducato has the well known fault then you start needing a DPF £4000 plus a cooler £600 plus needing software issues 28 or 32. Then there are other parts as identified in the main post..
.
May we ask how much you paid for the van? Repair might cost the same again.
.
Do please keep us informed.
.
Where are you based? Oops, must be Bristol

Thanks for that, I'll give it a go. I paid £15K for the van plus another 2K on some adjustments. The seller has arranged for my local garage to do the repairs at their expense. As this will be a long term van I'm interested in preventing future issues. I'm already 2/3 through your mega thread, very interesting.

 

[Fredastaire]

@Keith in Bristol , the second problem is that 99.9% of garages won't have dealt with twin EGR non adblue Ducatos so don't understand them.
.
Have you done the basic kitchen paper towel examination? If it comes out sooty the dpf is cracked/ damaged, if it comes out spotless then the dpf is fine.
.
If you can sort the problem then these euro 6 vans are a much better option than trying a newer adblue model, adblue models cost a fortune in repairs due to crystallisation wrecking pumps, tanks etc

 

[theoneandonly]

there are 2 guides that explain in a nutshell the twin egr problem

Twin EGR Problem

This does not refer to earlier single EGR systems or to later AdBlu SCR engines. Note this is a guide and not definative. It is up to you to make decissions. It is the result of my investigations of data from many contributors and discussion with...

www.fiatforum.com

Ducato twin EGR Engine with P0401 Code (2016 to 2019)

This does not refer to earlier single EGR systems or to later AdBlu SCR engines. Note this is a guide and not definative. It is up to you to make decissions. It is the result of my investigations of data from many contributors and discussion with...

www.fiatforum.com

It wouldnt take a betting man to say you have a serious problem, given the correct data i can be certain. Well come back to that.
assuming you have the problem to solve it will require
new DPF
cleaned or new LPEGR cooler
cleaned or new air intake manifold
cleaned or new HPEGR this may not be required if it has just been replaced (this not normally required but a clean is not a bad idea)
cleaned intercooler
possibly 4 new injectors

We need to see results of the exhaust wipe
Template 7
Take results from cold and then a 20min run prefferably a 60mph blast after 10 mins warm up.
check for error codes before the run and take a screen shot of each error the results of a P0401 are extreamly usefull (see guide). only clear error after screenshots. (
To save a screen shot rather than take a photograph i use this method. it is not the only one but works and is simple.
Press Alt and PrintScreen keys together, this this captures the screen to the clipboard.
Open paint or paint3d open a new file ( Ctrl n) then paste (Ctrl v) and save as a jpg(Ctrl s).
The simplest method maybe
Press Windows Logo Key and PrintScreen keys together, this this captures the screen to the screenshots directory under usr pictures as a screenshot(x).png file.

Good luck.
If the garage wont listen to you when you explain the extent of the repair required point them here. I know of at least one garage mechanic here that may be able to advise your garage.

 

[Keith in Bristol]

@Keith in Bristol , the second problem is that 99.9% of garages won't have dealt with twin EGR non adblue Ducatos so don't understand them.
.
Have you done the basic kitchen paper towel examination? If it comes out sooty the dpf is cracked/ damaged, if it comes out spotless then the dpf is fine.
.
If you can sort the problem then these euro 6 vans are a much better option than trying a newer adblue model, adblue models cost a fortune in repairs due to crystallisation wrecking pumps, tanks etc

I haven't tried anything as yet I'm just going through the rest of your thread and then the other big one. It's not going in to the garage until the 20th so I plan to have a good understanding of the issue by then.
It's reassuring to hear that once sorted these are good vans. DPF is quite a price, I didn't realise they were so much. I can see why people consider mapping out the EGR system.

 

[Keith in Bristol]

there are 2 guides that explain in a nutshell the twin egr problem

Twin EGR Problem

This does not refer to earlier single EGR systems or to later AdBlu SCR engines. Note this is a guide and not definative. It is up to you to make decissions. It is the result of my investigations of data from many contributors and discussion with...

www.fiatforum.com

Ducato twin EGR Engine with P0401 Code (2016 to 2019)

This does not refer to earlier single EGR systems or to later AdBlu SCR engines. Note this is a guide and not definative. It is up to you to make decissions. It is the result of my investigations of data from many contributors and discussion with...

www.fiatforum.com

It wouldnt take a betting man to say you have a serious problem, given the correct data i can be certain. Well come back to that.
assuming you have the problem to solve it will require
new DPF
cleaned or new LPEGR cooler
cleaned or new air intake manifold
cleaned or new HPEGR this may not be required if it has just been replaced (this not normally required but a clean is not a bad idea)
cleaned intercooler
possibly 4 new injectors

We need to see results of the exhaust wipe
Template 7
Take results from cold and then a 20min run prefferably a 60mph blast after 10 mins warm up.
check for error codes before the run and take a screen shot of each error the results of a P0401 are extreamly usefull (see guide). only clear error after screenshots. (
To save a screen shot rather than take a photograph i use this method. it is not the only one but works and is simple.
Press Alt and PrintScreen keys together, this this captures the screen to the clipboard.
Open paint or paint3d open a new file ( Ctrl n) then paste (Ctrl v) and save as a jpg(Ctrl s).
The simplest method maybe
Press Windows Logo Key and PrintScreen keys together, this this captures the screen to the screenshots directory under usr pictures as a screenshot(x).png file.

View attachment 484294

Good luck.
If the garage wont listen to you when you explain the extent of the repair required point them here. I know of at least one garage mechanic here that may be able to advise your garage.

Thanks for that I'll run it and see what the results look like.

 

[Keith in Bristol]

there are 2 guides that explain in a nutshell the twin egr problem

Twin EGR Problem

This does not refer to earlier single EGR systems or to later AdBlu SCR engines. Note this is a guide and not definative. It is up to you to make decissions. It is the result of my investigations of data from many contributors and discussion with...

www.fiatforum.com

Ducato twin EGR Engine with P0401 Code (2016 to 2019)

This does not refer to earlier single EGR systems or to later AdBlu SCR engines. Note this is a guide and not definative. It is up to you to make decissions. It is the result of my investigations of data from many contributors and discussion with...

www.fiatforum.com

It wouldnt take a betting man to say you have a serious problem, given the correct data i can be certain. Well come back to that.
assuming you have the problem to solve it will require
new DPF
cleaned or new LPEGR cooler
cleaned or new air intake manifold
cleaned or new HPEGR this may not be required if it has just been replaced (this not normally required but a clean is not a bad idea)
cleaned intercooler
possibly 4 new injectors

We need to see results of the exhaust wipe
Template 7
Take results from cold and then a 20min run prefferably a 60mph blast after 10 mins warm up.
check for error codes before the run and take a screen shot of each error the results of a P0401 are extreamly usefull (see guide). only clear error after screenshots. (
To save a screen shot rather than take a photograph i use this method. it is not the only one but works and is simple.
Press Alt and PrintScreen keys together, this this captures the screen to the clipboard.
Open paint or paint3d open a new file ( Ctrl n) then paste (Ctrl v) and save as a jpg(Ctrl s).
The simplest method maybe
Press Windows Logo Key and PrintScreen keys together, this this captures the screen to the screenshots directory under usr pictures as a screenshot(x).png file.

View attachment 484294

Good luck.
If the garage wont listen to you when you explain the extent of the repair required point them here. I know of at least one garage mechanic here that may be able to advise your garage.

Thanks. Were do I find template 7? It will be interesting to see the results. Sorry I've just realised I can do it manually from the image you posted, I thought it was something I had to download.

 

[Keith in Bristol]

@Fredastaire
@theoneandonly
Sorry I'm just getting to grips with the software, a steep learning curve as I haven't done this type of thing for a few years.
I'm getting some soot when wiping the exhaust but nothing sticky, suspect the DPF is cracked.
LPEGR Temperature is not rising much, rising to a maximum of 50 C.
LPEGR Valve seems to be working okay between 0 - 5.0
Injector variance seems to be within tolerance.
I've just attached a couple of images for now.

 

[Keith in Bristol]

@Keith in Bristol , if you have only just bought the Ducato from a dealer then you ought to investigate returning it to them for a full refund.
.
I started the big extensive main forum post on this matter. I would ask that you join us on there.
.
To clarify your wording, it's the LP EGR cooler that will be blocked, not the intercooler. Albeit the intercooler will need flushing through.
.
To check in detail get in touch with @theoneandonly and use his template 7 and go for a drive collecting the data as a CSV file.
.
If indeed your Ducato has the well known fault then you start needing a DPF £4000 plus a cooler £600 plus needing software issues 28 or 32. Then there are other parts as identified in the main post..
.
May we ask how much you paid for the van? Repair might cost the same again.
.
Do please keep us informed.
.
Where are you based? Oops, must be Bristol

I was just looking around for non-Fiat DPFs and came across this site. The image looks very similar and much cheaper than the Fiat one.

FIAT DUCATO 2.3 04/15 on Diesel Particulate Filter FI6077T

FIAT DUCATO 2.3 04/15 on Diesel Particulate Filter FI6077T

www.dieselparticulatefilters2u.co.uk