Technical JTD Suddenly died, now wont start

[6 Pack JTD]

Hi all
My other half was driving out 54 Multi JTD on Monday when it suddenly cut out. Dispite various attempts it has not started since.
The engine spins over nicely, and seems like its trying to fire, very occasionally it will catch and run for a few seconds. But if you go anywhere near the accel pedal while it is running it just dies again.

This has all come at a bad time, my lady lost her job last tuesday, the multi failed its MOT for a bust spring, drop link and track rod end. (which I have now fixed) and now this right when we dont need it.

Hope someone can help.

Rees

 

[6 Pack JTD]

Did a diagnostic check on the ECU and it gave no fault. I have now replaced the crank sensor but it still wont start.

After browsing the forum, it has been suggested that the glo plugs need replacing, but I am not so sure as the engine died when it was hot and had been running for about 20 mins when it stopped. It wouldnt start after that and hasnt since.

My local mechanic has suggested the hi pressure pump, I know the tank unit is working as when I crack the outlet of the fuel filter it fills a coffee jar in a couple of seconds.

Any suggestions of checks that i can carry out before going to the expense of replacing the pump only my other half lost her job a week before the car died and money is now at a premium (like we now dont have any) and she needs the car to go to interviews and sign on.

It never rains but it pours, I had only just replced a spring, drop link and trackrod end for the MOT,and it was going back for the retest when it died!!

Any help at all would be appreciated.

 

[Peat]

There is a safety fuel cut-off switch located behind the panel to the right of the throttle pedal which sometimes opens on a large bump. It's worth a look.

Peat

 

[6 Pack JTD]

thanks peat, i'll take a look there tonight when i get home . Do you (or anyone) know if pump failures are common on the 1.9JTD? And is it a distructive failure ie bits get into the injectors?

 

[6 Pack JTD]

welli did that and got the crank sensor replaced. Still wont start. The local garage had the car for a few days and the reckon the Hi Pressure pump has died. Can i prove this fo myself somehow.

I seem to remember readng somewhere that when the pump dies it can fill the injectors and fuel rail with swarf. is this right and if so will i need to replace the injectors too?

Another thing that I am a bit confused about is that if I have to replace the injectors why do they need to be re coded?

Is changing the pump a relatively easy job?

Sorry for so many questions, but as i said above, the other half has lost her job, so I am doing this on a very tight budget that has already cost me £150 in garage bills.

 

[scooterdude]

before you do all this work check your exhaust gas recirculation valve on your engine . take your plastic cover off the top of your engine , you ll see a cylinder to bulk head side of your rocker box, put ignition on and give it a tap if it starts it requires a simple strip down and clean out , has it been black smoking slightly recently these are symptoms ,there are other posts etc

 

[6 Pack JTD]

Ta, I'll give that a try.

 

[vincenze]

6 Pack, my 03 JTD has recently been playing up like this. Didn't die on the road but after 4 gloplugs replaced (coil warning light used to flash for 2 minutes) and new Varta battery show was back on the road, until this morning, when all the firing up problems came back.

I did the crank sensor last July, but the problems associated with this are stalling after engine warms.

I am concluding an EGR, injector or fuel pump issue. I'd be interested to know how you get on. My JTD has gone from being something I like to a sodding nuisance.

Sorry to hear about your other half's job loss, happened to mine, too. This bloody country and the bloody Multipla.

 

[6 Pack JTD]

Well as of today, i have put the engine back together, new pump, cleaned EGR, new crank sensor (so the garage said tho I am not so sure they actually did it) and hey presto. No start still, well, it started and idled for about a minute with some white smoke from the exhaust that stunk of poorly burned diesel then it died. Is there anything I am missing? Does the pump need some kind of matching to the ECU or should it just have started after putting a new pump?

Help please, the car has been dead for a month now, we have spent the last of our money on the pump and belt kit, my other half still hasnt managed to get a job, I can only work weekends on the car as I am in the forces and work away from home.

We bought this car because they seemed reliable, it only had 34000 miles on it and just a year later with only 40000 miles it is useless and still being paid for.

 

[the frog]

Well as of today, i have put the engine back together, new pump, cleaned EGR, new crank sensor (so the garage said tho I am not so sure they actually did it) and hey presto. No start still, well, it started and idled for about a minute with some white smoke from the exhaust that stunk of poorly burned diesel then it died. Is there anything I am missing? Does the pump need some kind of matching to the ECU or should it just have started after putting a new pump?

Help please, the car has been dead for a month now, we have spent the last of our money on the pump and belt kit, my other half still hasnt managed to get a job, I can only work weekends on the car as I am in the forces and work away from home.

We bought this car because they seemed reliable, it only had 34000 miles on it and just a year later with only 40000 miles it is useless and still being paid for.

Wisps of white smoke are normally signs of the glow plugs needing replacing. This happened on an old diesel Uno I owned about 10 years ago.

 

[Peat]

Have you checked that the timing is OK? I had an old Mercedes diesel which issued forth white smoke smelling of diesel and it was the timing that was out.

I realize that money is short but the best solution is usually a good diesel specialist, particularly if it's an 'air' in fuel problem!

Best of luck

Peat

 

[vincenze]

When my 03 JTD 115 was doing exactly the same thing I had the glowplug warning lights. Took a minute to go out, so I changed them.

The EGR was filthy and it needs a proper job doing on it so the valve can flip easily enough.

Could you reset the ECU after detaching the neg lead (check the procedure properly, it's on the forum somewhere)

You need to check your fuel system too. You could run Forte fuel cleaner throiugh the system on a quarter tank, but you need to fire her up first.

Friend of mine had a problm like this and he left the car for a couple of days and managed to fire up and he immediately got into first and red lined it...i guess to clear it out. It runs but he says it's a bit lumpy. Vince

 

[6 Pack JTD]

Well the car has had an ECU read done again, still no codes! Spoke to FIAT service centre who said that some faults dont show codes (helpful) and they suggested everything I have already done. I have so far outlaid nearly £900 in garage and parts bills and FIATs next suggestion was to replace the ECU, aparently a job that will cost close to £1000. Beyond that they say it could be a fault somewhere in the wiring loom which could cost in the region of £1500-2500 depending on how long it takes to find the fault and whether the loom will need replacing. The service managers own words were "although FIATs are much improved in bodywork and mechanical quality they are still not really there with the electrics" and that it probably wont be the ECU as they have never had one in for a failure as far as he could remember.

This is daft as those bills will add up to close to what the car is worth.

To me all the diesel vapour coming from the exhaust when running makes it still seems like the timing is not where it should be, maybe injecting late (or way too early). Whch would also explain why it dies (when it has occasionally started) if you go anywhere near the accelerator pedal. I dont think any of the injectors are blocked as when it does idle it runs really smoothly with no misfire or lumpiness.

Any Ideas what else may cause these issues as all that has been suggested both here and at FIAT has been done. :bang:

I am now seriously considering getting my 200bhp V6 Calibra out of storage, as even though its heavy on juice and 16 years old, I know it works and will work when i need it to:devil:. The fact the my other half only does about 100 miles a week will make it cheaper to run than constantly throwing money in stabs in the dark at the multi to get it going.

For sure I wont be buying another FIAT. I should have learned when my ex wife had a Mk1 Punto 45. There was very little electrical stuff to go wrong in it, but go wrong it did, regularly!

Annoyed now as i still have 3 years to pay on the thing

 

[vincenze]

Very depressing after doing so much. Not a good advert for the Multi at all. I can't believe the Fiat rep God almighty.
Check the earth leads are clean and good; battery in good order; double check the valve moved freely in the EGR [sometimes it needs to come off and need a serioius seeing to in a fuel bath to clean; check MAF and MAF sensor condition – possible replacement [bosch] - I dont have experience with this.

Put a good dose of cold start down the throat to see if you can just force a prolonged start.

Join the AA for £50 homestart (cheap given what youve got in the pipeline based on Fiat garage estimates). Dont let the AA guy go until he's tested evry nook of the car.

No point in spending that big dosh. Put the multi in storage and get the v6 beast out!! Wish I could help out better. Good luck, vince

 

[scooterdude]

sorry to hear about your multipla again , i know this sounds daft ,but have you tried a fresh tank of diesel? , it sounds like it could be contaminated if not that it could the timing but i must say this is what happened when my egr valve went , it just cut out and when it tried to start it was chucking out grey smoke thinking the timing belt had gone i called the aa he tapped the egr valve and it cracked up! believe me i was embarrased as hell as i fix psv s for a living .

 

[jkunniger]

I have Fiat ecu Scan and a Vag KKL usb cable, but cant seem to connect. How do i fix this? The Mulipla also comes up with alte Error and cuts out then starts again after a while. Any ideas?

 

[Fiendy]

Greetings All,
When my punto jtd wouldn't start, I traced the fault too a cracked earth cable running from the battery to the gearbox. It was hidden inside a protective sheathing so not visible to inspection and didn't show up on diagnostics. My local Fiat dealer in Reading still hasn't replied to my Email requests for the price of a replacement so I've resorted to a temporary fix from Half... Half.. no.. I can't say it, but now the car starts perfectly and runs ok.
Hope this helps?