Technical Is this salvageable?

[miaaa]

My daughter had a crash during the week, I’ve been advised by mechanic that the leg on the left side has broke. This car has a lot of sentimental value to me as it was my late aunts. Does anyone have any advice or suggestions on if there’s any chance of saving it?

 

[Greasytrucker]

Hi just an update to the issue, full transparency so that I can get the best possible advice I have been told by insurance that options are either write off and receive £5000 or keep car at cat S and £3000 for repairs? I have been informed that the chassis has shifted about an inch to the right and the left leg has been bent. Would anyone be able to advise on this and what option they would take on this. Thank you!

So you also need to know how much they’ll give you if you keep the car but get the repairs done yourself (that’s if you know somewhere that can do it obviously)

 

[PuntoHowTo]

So you also need to know how much they’ll give you if you keep the car but get the repairs done yourself

Thats already stated above.

take a £5k pay out and the car goes off to copart.

Take a £3k payout and keep the car, basically the insurance company are selling the car to the OP for £2000 which is a huge mark up on what its worth in that condition.

If the car has great sentimental value then it "might" be worth it. Only the OP can answer that.

@miaaa I would first go back to the insurance co and argue that the price of £5000 is too low. If it was previously a good condition car, the mileage is actually quite low, I would argue that its going to cost you £6000 to replace that car like for like.
They are low balling you on the value and thats very common with insurance companies. So firstly argue and settle on the value of the car before you decide if you want/intend to buy it back.

Then start arguing about the buy back cost, if you want to keep it.

The car is extensively damaged, it will need to go to a body shop to have the chassis leg straightened if that is damaged and that will be expensive. the whole front end will basically need to be stripped down its a lot of work, it needs specialist equipment.

It is going to need,
Bumper cover
bumper bar,
Headlight
DRL
Foglight,
Front wing
Driver's door.
Possibly bonnet, bonnet hinges,
Airbags? any deployed. airbag light on ?

That is a lot of money's worth of parts even second hand, and if you don't have the time, skills or inclination to do a lot of the work yourself you are paying the body shop, its going to come to more than £2k.

This is a list of all the 2015 Fiat 500's currently at Copart (the auction house that insurance companies use to sell damaged cars.) there are a lot of them right now so that tanks the value.

https://www.copart.co.uk/lotSearchResults?free=true&query=fiat%20500&qId=8bbc908d-5409-4073-9983-6475d986a309-1777625694486&index=undefined&searchCriteria=%7B%22query%22:%5B%22*%22%5D,%22filter%22:%7B%22YEAR%22:%5B%22lot_year:%5B2015%20TO%202015%5D%22%5D%7D,%22searchName%22:%22%22,%22watchListOnly%22:false,%22freeFormSearch%22:false%7D

Here is a reason I would not buy this car back at £2000.

This is a Cat S which clearly doesn't have anywhere near as much damage https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/500113...0-1-2-lounge-3dr-dualogic-start-stop-sandtoft
This hasn't met its reserve (at time of writing) at £1700. and bearing in mind it could take a lot less work to get that back on the road than yours. Thats "primary Damage dents and scratches" so likely repaired and then written off again with some minor damage but the Cat S marker was already on the car.


This is a Cat N which again at the time of writing was struggling to meet reserve at £1500

https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/47857986/clean-title-2015-fiat-500-1-2-lounge-3dr-start-stop-westbury

Here is a Fiat 500s 2015 on ebay that is hovering around the £1000 mark with much less damage than yours.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/257479373047?_skw=fiat+500&itmmeta=01KQHBPDCP8JGT6D0ZNP02V9TG&hash=item3bf2f770f7:g:GJsAAeSwLuFp8JhP&itmprp=enc%3AAQALAAAAwGfYFPkwiKCW4ZNSs2u11xDDZqlGPUeZp4KeyDFlSjWvP2CIH0HRe66A39S0bgoR7zukASDNOCkgtmFHwo7fkjLjr%2FLKhGHfLgB%2Fb4BJnB2H1nb91w948xd5dsrepm2mVazVvNvWqhopDifK5PqEwQhVEZF4ionUKK0UrJbfxb2NbTHxWYbt2GnhDur9ZERjxl7RKwG6S%2Ff%2F8RlMYHhNu7dAlLEDecTUpmppcafFnKE1QAufUqbcaosT5cjNDyroaA%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8TW2au8Zw

So £5000 is not enough to replace your car, argue for more with the insurance co.
£2000 buy back is too much. By the time they have paid to ship it to copart, storage fees and auction fees even if it made £2000 at auction which it definitely won't the insurance co would only be looking at getting a £1000 - £1500 back, and just to reiterate, it won't get £2k at auction so they won't get that much back, they will be lucky to break £1000 if they sell it at auction, or maybe far less if it does several rounds on the auction block.


Finally you need to decide how much sentimental value it holds because getting this repaired if you are not doing any of the work yourself and paying a bodyshop. It is definately going to be more than the car is worth, bearing in mind that it will now always be a CAT-S and will be worth less as a result.

Finally if your daughter is driving it about are you happy for your daughter to be driving a car you know has already had a heavy accident and needed repair work to essential crumple zones (the bent chassis leg).


Honestly I would encourage you to let it go. Do argue for more money from the insurance co, because it is low milage and was in likely very good condition before the accident.

 

[jrkitching]

I'd agree with everything that's been said so far in this thread. I can only encourage you, in the strongest way I know how, not to accept any resolution that leaves anyone in your family still owning this car. I don't think it can be safely repaired, end of.

Finally if your daughter is driving it about are you happy for your daughter to be driving a car you know has already had a heavy accident and needed repair work to essential crumple zones (the bent chassis leg).

I was going to say I wouldn't want anyone I cared about to be driving this again, but actually I wouldn't want anyone to be driving it again, full stop. A couple of nasty experiences have taught me that in a car accident, the difference between walking away and being killed or seriously injured can be a very fine line indeed.

No car is worth a life; there's no way anyone can guarantee how this would perform in a subsequent accident once repaired. Far too many cars are put back on the road that should have be marked Cat A/B and scrapped; the only motivation not to do this is money.

This is a complete no-brainer; just let it go. Argue for the best price possible, but even if they give you the car for nothing, don't repair it.

I totally get the sentimental value bit, but if the repaired car subsequently killed your daughter, that's not how you'd want to remember your aunt.

 

[Greasytrucker]

Thats already stated above.

take a £5k pay out and the car goes off to copart.

Take a £3k payout and keep the car, basically the insurance company are selling the car to the OP for £2000 which is a huge mark up on what its worth in that condition.

If the car has great sentimental value then it "might" be worth it. Only the OP can answer that.

@miaaa I would first go back to the insurance co and argue that the price of £5000 is too low. If it was previously a good condition car, the mileage is actually quite low, I would argue that its going to cost you £6000 to replace that car like for like.
They are low balling you on the value and thats very common with insurance companies. So firstly argue and settle on the value of the car before you decide if you want/intend to buy it back.

Then start arguing about the buy back cost, if you want to keep it.

The car is extensively damaged, it will need to go to a body shop to have the chassis leg straightened if that is damaged and that will be expensive. the whole front end will basically need to be stripped down its a lot of work, it needs specialist equipment.

It is going to need,
Bumper cover
bumper bar,
Headlight
DRL
Foglight,
Front wing
Driver's door.
Possibly bonnet, bonnet hinges,
Airbags? any deployed. airbag light on ?

That is a lot of money's worth of parts even second hand, and if you don't have the time, skills or inclination to do a lot of the work yourself you are paying the body shop, its going to come to more than £2k.

This is a list of all the 2015 Fiat 500's currently at Copart (the auction house that insurance companies use to sell damaged cars.) there are a lot of them right now so that tanks the value.

https://www.copart.co.uk/lotSearchResults?free=true&query=fiat%20500&qId=8bbc908d-5409-4073-9983-6475d986a309-1777625694486&index=undefined&searchCriteria=%7B%22query%22:%5B%22*%22%5D,%22filter%22:%7B%22YEAR%22:%5B%22lot_year:%5B2015%20TO%202015%5D%22%5D%7D,%22searchName%22:%22%22,%22watchListOnly%22:false,%22freeFormSearch%22:false%7D

Here is a reason I would not buy this car back at £2000.

This is a Cat S which clearly doesn't have anywhere near as much damage https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/500113...0-1-2-lounge-3dr-dualogic-start-stop-sandtoft
This hasn't met its reserve (at time of writing) at £1700. and bearing in mind it could take a lot less work to get that back on the road than yours. Thats "primary Damage dents and scratches" so likely repaired and then written off again with some minor damage but the Cat S marker was already on the car.


This is a Cat N which again at the time of writing was struggling to meet reserve at £1500

https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/47857986/clean-title-2015-fiat-500-1-2-lounge-3dr-start-stop-westbury

Here is a Fiat 500s 2015 on ebay that is hovering around the £1000 mark with much less damage than yours.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/25747937...E1QAufUqbcaosT5cjNDyroaA==|tkp:Bk9SR8TW2au8Zw

So £5000 is not enough to replace your car, argue for more with the insurance co.
£2000 buy back is too much. By the time they have paid to ship it to copart, storage fees and auction fees even if it made £2000 at auction which it definitely won't the insurance co would only be looking at getting a £1000 - £1500 back, and just to reiterate, it won't get £2k at auction so they won't get that much back, they will be lucky to break £1000 if they sell it at auction, or maybe far less if it does several rounds on the auction block.


Finally you need to decide how much sentimental value it holds because getting this repaired if you are not doing any of the work yourself and paying a bodyshop. It is definately going to be more than the car is worth, bearing in mind that it will now always be a CAT-S and will be worth less as a result.

Finally if your daughter is driving it about are you happy for your daughter to be driving a car you know has already had a heavy accident and needed repair work to essential crumple zones (the bent chassis leg).


Honestly I would encourage you to let it go. Do argue for more money from the insurance co, because it is low milage and was in likely very good condition before the accident.

Sorry misread what op had put

 

[AnthonyH]

Hi just an update to the issue, full transparency so that I can get the best possible advice I have been told by insurance that options are either write off and receive £5000 or keep car at cat S and £3000 for repairs? I have been informed that the chassis has shifted about an inch to the right and the left leg has been bent. Would anyone be able to advise on this and what option they would take on this. Thank you!

You need to take the full payout of £5,000. You'll never get this repaired properly. Its hopeless for all of the reasons others have given you.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

I'd agree with everything that's been said so far in this thread. I can only encourage you, in the strongest way I know how, not to accept any resolution that leaves anyone in your family still owning this car. I don't think it can be safely repaired, end of.



I was going to say I wouldn't want anyone I cared about to be driving this again, but actually I wouldn't want anyone to be driving it again, full stop. A couple of nasty experiences have taught me that in a car accident, the difference between walking away and being killed or seriously injured can be a very fine line indeed.

No car is worth a life; there's no way anyone can guarantee how this would perform in a subsequent accident once repaired. Far too many cars are put back on the road that should have be marked Cat A/B and scrapped; the only motivation not to do this is money.

This is a complete no-brainer; just let it go. Argue for the best price possible, but even if they give you the car for nothing, don't repair it.

I totally get the sentimental value bit, but if the repaired car subsequently killed your daughter, that's not how you'd want to remember your aunt.

This I would not agree with.

There are Cat B cars that could with the right time money and expertise be returned to the road safely (Cat A cars tend to be completely destroyed, burned or extremely severely damaged)

This is a prime example

What is comes down to always is money. this car costing nearly £1million to repair, but was repaired non the less by the manufacturer and returned to as new condition.

Equally you can buy, and it used to be common to buy a complete shell and re-shell an accident damaged car. That died off when cars started getting more complex and the work involved in swapping parts became much more labor intensive. but it is common to replace the chassis on a TVR. or a Morgan as other examples.

Straightening a chassis leg is actually pretty simple for a Bodyshop and if the metal is weakened, they will carefully unstitch the spot welds and then weld in brand new metal exactly the same way the manufacturer did it. with spot welding equipment. There are very specific documents produced to show the body shop exactly how to do this.

So no this car is not beyond repair. or inherently dangerous in the future. But. Cheap cars attract cheap repairs. If you where to repair this car to the standard required by the insurance company then it would very likely and very rapidly exceed the value of the car if it was repaired.

Someone repairing the car outside of the insurance network is likely to cut corners which makes the repair cheaper. but technically speaking the structural repair should still be up to standard, otherwise its the Bodyshop knowingly putting a dangerous car back on the road.

 

[AnthonyH]

Someone repairing the car outside of the insurance network is likely to cut corners which makes the repair cheaper. but technically speaking the structural repair should still be up to standard, otherwise its the Bodyshop knowingly putting a dangerous car back on the road.

I regularly drive through an industrial area where copart cars are put back on the road via numerous "garages", chop shops etc.. Its very rough. I have little doubt they are putting a lot of dangerous cars back on the road, and they don't give a ****. Illegal workers, illegal work practices, illegal cars.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

I regularly drive through an industrial area where copart cars are put back on the road via numerous "garages", chop shops etc.. Its very rough. I have little doubt they are putting a lot of dangerous cars back on the road, and they don't give a ****. Illegal workers, illegal work practices, illegal cars.

Now firstly you maybe very much correct in your assumption. but, it is only an assumption so you don't actually know that, that's the case.

You're probably right though..

Secondly a contentious owner who wants it repaired and intends to continue to use the car once repaired is less likely to want to bodge it. I say less likely because well.... People like this exist

In this case, if it were my car I would take the money and go buy something else. If it were my business I would have no issues in repairing it.

 

[bugsymike]

Now firstly you maybe very much correct in your assumption. but, it is only an assumption so you don't actually know that, that's the case.

You're probably right though..

Secondly a contentious owner who wants it repaired and intends to continue to use the car once repaired is less likely to want to bodge it. I say less likely because well.... People like this exist

In this case, if it were my car I would take the money and go buy something else. If it were my business I would have no issues in repairing it.

In the past I have looked at cars on behalf my customers on garage forecourts including main dealer sites including Honda and Renault for many thousands of pounds and found signs that they had been in serious accidents requiring jigs etc. which put the clamp marks on the sill area. No mention of it by the salesmen who invariable expressed "wide eyed" surprise when it was given as a reason not to conclude a sale.

 

[fixingsalvage]

My daughter had a crash during the week, I’ve been advised by mechanic that the leg on the left side has broke. This car has a lot of sentimental value to me as it was my late aunts. Does anyone have any advice or suggestions on if there’s any chance of saving it?

Please dont listen to some of the morons in this thread trying to put you off repairing it, many of whom have never picked up a spanner in there life! this car has minor damage and can be repaired exactly how it came out of the factory with somebody who has the correct knowledge.

if you were looking for someone to repair it on your behalf let me know and id be more than happy to help.

 

[bugsymike]

Please dont listen to some of the morons in this thread trying to put you off repairing it, many of whom have never picked up a spanner in there life! this car has minor damage and can be repaired exactly how it came out of the factory with somebody who has the correct knowledge.

if you were looking for someone to repair it on your behalf let me know and id be more than happy to help.

And many have worked in the motor trade before you were born and seen many "cut and shuts" also!

 

[fixingsalvage]

And many have worked in the motor trade before you were born and seen many "cut and shuts" also!

Yes i agree but some of the comments on this threat about this "never being safe again" are total nonsense, no car that has been "cut and shut" is safe so thats a given.

 

[bugsymike]

Yes i agree but some of the comments on this threat about this "never being safe again" are total nonsense, no car that has been "cut and shut" is safe so thats a given.

My thoughts are more along the line of how much to spend on a vehicle that will probably be registered as a Cat S so harder to insure and of limited resale value. If the OP is prepared to spend the money for sentimental reasons then other concerns are less important to him.

 

[AnthonyH]

@miaaa​

What did you do?

 

[Mike1alike]

@miaaa​

What did you do?

Like... with the car!
Give us the news about it...!

 

[AnthonyH]

Like... with the car!
Give us the news about it...!

I'm thinking the car has been at a garage for the last few weeks and its now ready to be returned in almost new condition!

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Please dont listen to some of the morons in this thread trying to put you off repairing it, many of whom have never picked up a spanner in there life!

Anything can be repaired, its whether or not its worth the cost and/or effort.

Plenty of people on here have picked up a Spanner, plenty of people on here have restored or repaired crash damaged cars. some commenting on this thread are seasoned motor mechanics with years of experience.

Don't come onto a forum unknown, and start slagging people off whether you agree with them or not, its a great way to make yourself immediately disliked.

I think we had established that yes the car can be repaired and no its probably not worth it for what you will be left with when it is repaired.

 

[fixingsalvage]

Anything can be repaired, its whether or not its worth the cost and/or effort.

Plenty of people on here have picked up a Spanner, plenty of people on here have restored or repaired crash damaged cars. some commenting on this thread are seasoned motor mechanics with years of experience.

Don't come onto a forum unknown, and start slagging people off whether you agree with them or not, its a great way to make yourself immediately disliked.

I think we had established that yes the car can be repaired and no its probably not worth it for what you will be left with when it is repaired.

Yes I also agree anything can be repaired but the comments by jrkitching saying that no one would be able to say that the car would be safe again is utter nonsense and scare mongering.

if this car was newer then it wouldnt be a write off and would be repaired and returned back to the customer within a couple of weeks. even in this scenario where it was written off to replace the damaged parts and repair it i would estimate between £2000-£2500 worse case scenario

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Yes I also agree anything can be repaired but the comments by jrkitching saying that no one would be able to say that the car would be safe again is utter nonsense and scare mongering.

You can disagree with him but he is also a moderator on the forum and calling him a moron isn't perhaps the wisest thing.

if this car was newer then it wouldnt be a write off and would be repaired and returned back to the customer within a couple of weeks. even in this scenario where it was written off to replace the damaged parts and repair it i would estimate between £2000-£2500 worse case scenario

Honestly I have known cars to be a "write off" because certain parts are on back order and the length of the repair is going to make the courtesy car bill too much.

The insurance company will also weigh up the value they expect to get for the damaged are into the equation.

So if the car is worth £5000, and it would cost £2000 to repair, but they expect to get £1500 at Copart, and the storage and car rental bill is going to come to another £2000, then the total cost of writing it off is £5k they pay out to the owner, and recoup £1500. so total loss £3500, versus getting it repaired at a cost of £4000. The quicker they can getting it written off and pay out to the owner the quicker they stop paying for the rental car or storage bills.

It can cost the insurance company a couple of grand a month just to store a damaged car without lifting a finger to repair it.

 

[Robotstar4]

An uninsured driver hit the back of my wife's car while it was parked on the drive, insurance company wrote it off, but we bought it back and got a cheque for about £1200, I repaired it for about £300 with new and used parts so we pocketed about £900, although we had to pay £40 for a Vehicle Identity Check which was annoying because they dropped the scheme a few months later.

And as a final kick in the teeth, when she came to renew the insurance they had it down as her fault (she was in the house at the time) because even though we had given them all the offending vehicle details they couldn't trace the driver/car