Technical Is this normal? Gearbox issue

[Alezone]

Hi, I'm new to the forum and a proud owner of a 1972 500F. Pretty much stock and restored.


My question:
In order to shift into Reverse, my gearbox requires me to shift into 1st and then to Reverse (with Clutch in). and if I don't do this, it would get stuck in (I think) 2nd gear and can't get out of it, doesn't matter if the stick is at reverse position, the car would still go forward. And the stick won't snap into any other position other than reverse.

Is this normal for original gearbox?

If so, does synchromesh gearbox also behave like this or is it like a modern gearbox? i.e. I can shift into any gear from Neutral.

Thanks a lot.

 

[the hobbler]

Sounds like your (a) your clutch might need adjustment and, (b) your gear-lever box might need adjusting as well. The clutch should have about 1-1/2ins of free-play AT THE PEDAL. Adjustment is by moving the 17mm nut that is at the engine end of the clutch cable--it is 'locked' with a 10mm nut which needs to be released 1st, and then tightened back up against the adjuster nut when you have finished.
The gear-lever box is adjusted by loosening the 2 x 13mm bolt-heads on the right-hand side of the central tunnel opposite the gear -lever. You move the 'box' BACK to alter the adjustment of 2nd+ 4th + reverse and FORWARD to alter the adjustment of 1st + 3rd gears. You move the gear-lever box by gentlytappingthe bolt-heads in the direction required. You may have to play around with the adjustment a bit---easier to do if you 1st remove the right-side seat.

 

[Alezone]

Much appreciate the speedy response.

I will inform my mechanic and see if this is the issue, I was quite disappointed about at the strange behavior of the gearbox and ready to replace it with a synchromesh tranny, once and for all.

 

[IanEmery]

Seeing the problem you have and for the sake of a cheap replacement, knowing it can manifest itself in many strange symptoms, I would suggest looking to change the ‘lollipop’ on the gear linkage before going further. It just maybe as simple as that?

 

[Toshi 975]

It would probably help if you could tell more about the car like the extent of the restoration, how much you have driven the car, if the problem was always there, slowly developed or suddenly manifested or what?
Otherwise any suggestions are just shooting in the dark.

 

[Alezone]

It would probably help if you could tell more about the car like the extent of the restoration, how much you have driven the car, if the problem was always there, slowly developed or suddenly manifested or what?
Otherwise any suggestions are just shooting in the dark.

In fact, you are right. As I recall the gearbox was normal when I bought it over two years ago, but I only drove it around the parking lot before sending it off for restoration. The shop must’ve “restored” it and somehow adjusted it incorrectly to cause this strange phenomenon.

I will give all the suggested adjustment a try, since it did not behave like this prior the restoration. Ironic.

 

[the hobbler]

Ian's suggestion to change the 'lollipop' in the selectot linkage is a sensible one. I would also mention that very little change in the way the rear of the car is put back together will alter the selection adjustment. I had a repair done to the very rear of my car which very slightly altered the shape of the rear of the rear wings, which neccesitated the fitment of a 3mm spacer between the body and the cross-member, which altered the position of the rear cross-member, albeit only slightly. Even this slight change of position had an effect on the gear selection which needed adjustment of the selector 'box'. I would suggest that your mechanic checks this adjustment. If it is "out", whichever gearbox fitted, be it synchro or non-synchro would behave the same way---I am sure the fault lies in adjustment, not in the gear-box.

 

[Alezone]

Ian's suggestion to change the 'lollipop' in the selectot linkage is a sensible one. I would also mention that very little change in the way the rear of the car is put back together will alter the selection adjustment. I had a repair done to the very rear of my car which very slightly altered the shape of the rear of the rear wings, which neccesitated the fitment of a 3mm spacer between the body and the cross-member, which altered the position of the rear cross-member, albeit only slightly. Even this slight change of position had an effect on the gear selection which needed adjustment of the selector 'box'. I would suggest that your mechanic checks this adjustment. If it is "out", whichever gearbox fitted, be it synchro or non-synchro would behave the same way---I am sure the fault lies in adjustment, not in the gear-box.

Yes, this makes a lot of sense especially when it did not behave like this prior. Thanks a lot, I will have these adjusted and report back.

 

[Toshi 975]

All valid points being made here, clutch adjustment, position of the engine/gearbox and condition of the "lolly pop" which is a rubber bonded connector between the gearbox and the rear of the gear change linkage. If they get old or oily the bonding can break down. Just check that out. Also the "lolly pop" should be connected at both ends using the correct bolts, nylock nuts, shouldered spacers and special Spring wavey washers. The transfer shaft from the gear lever to the "lolly pop" should be supported at both ends by special bushes. One at the rear presses into the bodywork where the shaft exits and the other fits into the gear lever box. These do break down with wear and age making gear changing increasingly difficult especially the one at the gear lever end making reverse gear the first to suffer. If all of the components are correct and in good order then the adjustment of the lever that Hobbler referred to , if required, should leave the gear lever in a vertical position. Gearbox mounts also need to be in good condition. It is easy for a non specialist Fiat 500 mechanic/restorer to miss some of the finer points.

 

[Alfadeke21]

Correct setting of the gear lever is achieved quickly & easily by loosening the 2 bolts on the side the transmission tunnel as described previously. It should be set vertically at right angles to the top of the tunnel when both the gearbox & gear lever are in "neutral".

Another point to check (& easily overlooked) is each of the 2 plastic/rubber bushes at the ends of the horizontal gear lever shaft. These can wear & go "out of round" and develop excess free play sufficient to make gear changing difficult, especially when pressing down on the gear lever in selecting reverse. Cheap to buy & relatively easy to replace!

Something else to check?

Derek.

 

[Alezone]

Great inputs fellas, any suggestion where to order these lollipop and necessary parts from? I would like to order them before towing the car to the mechanic, would rather let it sit at home while waiting for parts. (Towing is expensive here and the shop don’t have space for idling vehicles either)

 

[Alfadeke21]

Firstly, where are you located?
There are many good parts suppliers, most have good websites.
You could try:
In UK, Motobambino Carnforth, Lancs, Fiat500 Ricambio sw London, Proietti north London,
In Netherlands, FD Ricambio, Venlo, Fiat van der Laan, Rotterdam,
In Germany, Axel Gerstl, Gunter Markhoff

Even eBay.it if you know a bit of tecchie Italian (or google translate!)

All are good. My preference would be Motobambino Or Ricambio, London in UK.
FD Ricambio, Netherlands (but carriage costs can be Expensive).
Prices in Germany are generally dearer & many Italian sites won’t post to UK just now we’re brexiting.

 

[Alezone]

I am in the Far East, Hong Kong precisely so postage would be quite expensive relatively.

I have bought from Ricambio.co.uk and they were punctual.

 

[the hobbler]

Give Mark Jayes at "Motobambino" a go---I have found the service from him absolutely 1st class----feel free to use my name if you think that it will help---Tom Montagu