General Is it necessary to change engine coolant (schedule says not?)

[alexGS]

Hello all and Happy New Year, hope your Stilos behave well!

In my previous cars I've always changed coolant with every second oil change. I do this not for the antifreeze properties (we seldom get temperatures below 0-degrees C in NZ) but rather for the anti-corrosion protection which is essential in modern engines.

Usually I find systems in a state of total neglect, but in my Stilo it still looks fine as you'd expect. But I note the service schedule does not call for changing the coolant, ever. This seems strange given that Paraflu 11 has been around for ever (it is not one of the new 5-year longlife OAT coolants) and so after two or three years, I'd expect its time to be up. What do you think?

Of course there is also the practical issue (I haven't managed to catch sight of the bottom radiator hose), so I'm thinking of syphoning-out the expansion tank, refilling with fresh mixture, and doing this a few times over the course of a month or two. Do you think this is acceptable? I plan to use a pre-mixed coolant (made with distilled water), since Paraflu 11 is not readily available.

Cheers for any comments on this...

-Alex

 

[custard]

i would be wanting to change it personally.
hopefully a fiat tech will provide input on this as it does seem weird

 

[anthonytutton]

Once the undertray is off, the bottom hose is easily accesible, but then again, my standard airbox has been replaced with oldskools induction kit, so there is plenty of room there now. i'll be doing mine sometim this week

 

[Rich]

Am going to be doing the 1.6's soon, luckily it has no undertray so it should be relatively easy. It's now 4.5yrs old and is still running the original stuff, the coolant bottle has gone all brown, oops!

My Stilo had new coolant put in when I bought it 18months ago (car was 2.5yrs old). It even had a label put round the lid saying "SAAB Original Coolant" (the dealer was a joint FIAT and SAAB dealer ).

I reckon do it, it's cheap enough. Gonna be putting 5yr coolant in mine when I do it next.

 

[Deckchair5]

Rather than drain the lot out and have possible air locks when you refill, I disconnect the coolant reservoir return feed and connect up some tubing to direct to dump and, with engine running and warmed up, provide refill to the reservoir whilst I'm draining out at the other end. You can then give the internals a good flush through rather than draining from one point and hoping for the best. Don't let water slosh about in the engine bay though, connect up a pipe to divert it outside the car

Really easy then to put in the right amount of antifreeze just at the end too. No mess and no grubbing about underneath. Just need some pipes and a watering can. The Stilo enema

 

[french bean]

Rather than drain the lot out and have possible air locks when you refill, I disconnect the coolant reservoir return feed and connect up some tubing to direct to dump and, with engine running and warmed up, provide refill to the reservoir whilst I'm draining out at the other end. You can then give the internals a good flush through rather than draining from one point and hoping for the best. Don't let water slosh about in the engine bay though, connect up a pipe to divert it outside the car

What a really clever idea! Glad someones got brains

 

[Rich]

Yeah that's a fantastic idea, best coolant flush I've heard of

 

[alexGS]

Deckchair5,
Thanks for the advice! Now I trust your skills implicitly - but I have just one question - if the engine is warmed up properly (to allow full circulation) and you follow that process, are you adding cold water to a hot engine? I'd always thought that was a very bad thing to do, but maybe I'm missing something in this case or maybe there's not actually any risk to the hot engine?

Cheers for the answers everyone - just have to decide how to do it now!
-Alex

 

[Deckchair5]

Yes I know what you mean Alex
A major problem arises when people pour cold water into an engine that has boiled over, often boiled dry so there's not a scrap of water and absolutely red hot in places. Usually the damage is already done and pouring cold water in just makes it more certain.

Coolant only returns in a trickle so you can only top up in a trickle too, hence the need for a watering can. In winter you could use warmed water from your kettle to top up if you wished

Adding cool water, as in topping up, to an already full coolant system isn't the dramatic change and no more than when the thermostat opens to allow cool water into an engine that's near 98 degrees.

 

[Stilo_ste]

Is it really necessary to change coolant at all??

To be really honest, I have never changed the coolant in any of my cars of the last 17 years of driving, I've never had any issues either.

I do question why folks think it is a good thing, and what benefits there are. Can these be proved, or are they more speculative than justifiable with facts.

Maybe I'm missing a trick, but I can't see how my cars have been affected.
Saying that, I've never changed the brake fluid either, and that would be far more noticable i'd have thought.

 

[Deckchair5]

Well, just like your oil, it gets worse after a while with contaminants so it's pumping around an abrasive sludge, blocking waterways like arteries and the antifreeze capability worsens and the vital lubrication for the water pump disappears. Perhaps the most obvious is that your reservoir bottle gets sludged up with brown rust so you can't check the level so easily too

Having said that, the water in your central heating system at home doesn't get changed very often and they reckon there's more acids, calcium and flouride deposits to build up by putting in fresh water than leaving the old stuff

With brake fluid, it's hygroscopic (oooooooo!) and takes in water after a few years which is why you should throw away and not use old, opened tins of the stuff and see about replacing your car's brake fluid at the same time. It's really easy with these self bleed kits these days

 

[Stilo_ste]

Yes, I mean the practicality of changing either coolant or brake fluid isn't difficult.

But if the expansion tank is still coloured the right colour and clearly looks not rusty, is there any real need to replace the coolant? If there is any need to top up, I only use boiled water (cooled) - to try to remove some of the hardness.

Brake fluid, yes I did know that it was hydroscopic (and the effects of that also), but i've still never changed either. Never noticed a problem, maybe I'm just not concentrating enough. Saying that, I am very light on the brakes anyway, my last car did 80,000 miles on the front brake pads. (the rears never needed changing)

So, I hear you loud and clear but, from personal experience alone, I am still not convinced it is absolutely necessary if the coolant still looks right colour and not rusty.


Cheers

 

[Deckchair5]

I don't think the Coolant Police will come and get ya if you ignore the service schedule. A bit like not changing the oil at all, who knows whether it actually did any harm or not? Only forensics could probably tell. I know of someone who, for two hours, drove a car with no oil in it at all apart from what was left in the sump as it was half way through an oil change when they took it -no detrimental effects apart from everyone hitting him on the head with a crow bar for not noticing the oil warning light

Changing coolant, oil and filters is preventative- doing it before it goes wrong. There's plenty that get away with the "If it ain't broke- don't fix it" philosophy and thrive perfectly well.

It's got to be said that a lot of damage occurs when fixing something else, particularly with plastic fixings etc. Just look at the people who go to pick up their car after a service and something else is damaged

 

[Argonought]

It's got to be said that a lot of damage occurs when fixing something else, particularly with plastic fixings etc. Just look at the people who go to pick up their car after repairs and something else is wrong

Now that's something I certainly agree with and reckon half the faults on Stilos are due to this (not that you'll get anyone to admit it )

Not sure I'd quite equate changing engine oil with changing the coolant. I kinda go along with Stilo_ste on this in that if it looks OK with no sign of corrosion then leave it well alone. For anyone to ignore oil changes then I think I'd sure put them in the crazy league

Anyone remember Bar's Leaks? I would always use this in all my motors (although not in the Stilo yet) and I swear it kept me out of trouble.

Only ever changed one radiator and that was on a VW. It wasn't even corrosion either - the plastic mounts and seals failed after 10 years

 

[Stilo_ste]

Well Argonought, I do believe that is the first time you have agreed with anything I've said.

And I agree with you about the oil change thingy ma jig

 

[T14086]

Think it's one of those events that happen every millenium or so when Argo+Steve+Myself agree!

If the colour is ok & the coolant can still safely protect the water system from freezing during our winter months I would leave it.Infact only time I have changed coolant on any of my cars is when a coolant pipe broke.

 

[Stilo_ste]

I think we must have interplanetary alignment and a full moon tonight.

I will go to bed tonight at peace with the world.

 

[alexGS]

LOL - looks like we're all getting along better in the new year then

'Decks' - thanks for the advice on the hot-vs-cold water issue. Makes perfect sense now!

Some of the old engines I've taken apart have been really scaled-up and rusty... one or two have been pristinely-clean. Same age, the only difference being that the coolant was changed. I suppose it just depends on whether you like to keep it looking new.

I know of a couple of cars that died from overheating when a pinhole leak developed in a metal cooling system pipe. Blown head gaskets, warped heads, etc. I'm convinced that had the coolant been 'clean and green', the cooling system pipes would have lasted the life of the car. However I think that most of us would probably be able to avoid losing all the coolant at once...

I still haven't bothered to change my Stilo's coolant yet, but I will get to it sometime I haven't driven the Stilo for a week or so now.

-Alex

 

[twincamms]

Chaps

I was about to attempt this job, but I've encountered a couple of hitches, one, the clips on the hoses are single use, pain in the bum to get off, and do I replace them with jubilee clips, two, looking at the other method, which is the resevoir return pipe, perhaps someone can post a pic, I know, derr.........................

Cheers.

 

[Deckchair5]

You can use the clips again, they're really quick, much faster than a jubilee and easy once you get the hang of it, provided you use a similar sort of tool to Fiat. I use a pair of right angle circlip pliers, jam one arm in the small circle in the clip and draw the other side of the clip together with the other arm of the pliers then pop the catch over the top. Done in seconds

With your coolant, diconnect your return to the coolant tank, the little pipe on the top of ther reservoir, add an extension pipe to it and dump that into a bucket then just add a constant top up to the coolant tank as necessary whilst your engine is ticking over and pumping the coolant out for you. You can use warm water from your kettle to top up then finally add your antifreeze, reconnect the pipe and let it circulate a bit