General induction improvements on the imola

[Aust]

Hey guys

recently bought myself a gsr induction kit (which, may i add is great)

but my cogs have been turning whilst looking at it
and i have this huge filter with a pipe that starts huge
then it reduces to a minor size to fit onto the 899 bob..

anyway heres the idea
i want to modify the induction kit with some silicone hosing and bits and bobs lying about to remove the small section that fits to the bob on top of the TB. (this is the easy part!!)
i now have to find myself a way to modify/fabricate a bob that will fit the rather large induction pipe ive made.
ive seen home made bobs before.
im just wondering if people have any pictures lying about to give me some inspiration.
i have easy access to millers/lathes/drills/welding equipment etc
so yeah.. post them pics up please ladles and jellyspoons

hopefully this should give a better air flow from the filter to the TB
your thoughts are also welcome

thankyou for your time
austin

 

[Oldschool]

Unfortunately you are on the wrong track.

 

[AppleSei]

pwned!

 

[Aust]

was just a thought
care to explain ?

and apple
no need really mate

 

[Oldschool]

was just a thought
care to explain ?

and apple
no need really mate

Not everything is in the diameter. The restrictor in the 2000 class at 38mm was good for 280+bhp. You also have to consider torque.

 

[AppleSei]

Apologies Aust

 

[Brooky]

Here you are fella:

It ws made out of a rolled stainless steel sheet,lid welded on and a bit of 2" ss exhaust pipe welded on

IIRC nitrane proved on the dyno that the standard bob is no good over 75bhp, hence the reason he made his own

 

[Aust]

thats my exact thought brooky. at state of high tune surely there cant be enough air coming through that tiny hole in the bob..
have you noticed much improvement from your standard bob to your DIY one brooky ?

i shall have a blast today at work.. (ust about to head off to the workshop now)

 

[Oldschool]

IIRC nitrane proved on the dyno that the standard bob is no good over 75bhp, hence the reason he made his own

Nitrane claimed but did not prove anything! We proved 83bhp and this was even with a 30mm throttle body.

 

[balidey]

Aust, I say go ahead and make your own custom bigger one because the smallest restriction (regardless of size, flow, power claims etc etc) is still a restriction.

 

[Oldschool]

Aust, I say go ahead and make your own custom bigger one because the smallest restriction (regardless of size, flow, power claims etc etc) is still a restriction.

I din't tell him not to go ahead.

But unlike you I spent quite some time on the rollers will all this, while I did not have this stuck up CC attitude.

Before you come up with your haughty and insulting comments, I would advise to switch on your brains then you might not contradict yourself.

A 43mm throttle body has got the same cross section as the 38mm opening on the bop. The bop is still flowing better.

But you seem to know more than the guys who do flow simulation, who do testing on the flow bench, who test on the rolling road and who test on the drag strip.

We have got test data to prove it. What other than a big mouth have you got.

If you want to improve things then look where it is worth it.

Before you can't do it you can consider yourself a waffler.

Stop MISLEADING people.

 

[balidey]

what did I say to deserve that response? Aust suggested making his own, Oldschool said 'you are on the wrong track' I said, make your own then stated a fact that a restriction is a restriction.

Very sorry you feel offended.

, while I did not have this stuck up CC attitude.

I never even mentioned engine size

 

[Oldschool]

I spent a bigger 5 figure sum on on development and testing on induction as well as endless hours of development and testing. And a lot of the data is not even provided from my testing rather than independent testing. I do not need to make claims.

I had to come up with solutions that are acceptable from a pricing point of view at the same time. But I have never refused help to anyone who wants to make an improvement. I am happy to help Aust to improve what he is after without seeing pound notes coming my way.

But when I help I will help where the improvement is to be made and not on hear say and wasting peoples time and money. KC3 and LRB will be able to tell you something theay have experienced just this weekend with a minor modification that looks like it would make things change to the worse if anything at all, but improved dramatically performance.

And I am fed up with hearing the word claims too often when it isn't applicable.

 

[balidey]

Can I just state that I am not anti GSR in any way, the products, the company, people, I have never had any dealings with them. And my comments were not a dig at GSR, although it seems it may have been read that way.

All I said, well you can read it above, was a bit of moral support to Aust to say yes, why don't you make your own part. Thats good old ingenuity (?speeling not my strong point), I like making things, not to p!ss off companies, just for the hell of it. So thats the reason I said make your own, there was no dig at anyone intended

So, back on topic. Aust, yes, go ahead and make your own parts.

 

[balidey]

OK, as this is a discussion about improving an air induction kit, lets get it back on track....

I had to come up with solutions that are acceptable from a pricing point of view at the same time. But I have never refused help to anyone who wants to make an improvement. I am happy to help Aust to improve what he is after without seeing pound notes coming my way.
.

so, its been stated that going to a bigger top bob will not necessarily improve things, and as you have offered to help anyone that wants an improvement, and this thread could be the ideal place to discuss it, can I ask, what would be the ideal induction parts / routing?

If size of the entry point into the bob is not critical, is it infact the entry position? (FIAT top bob, and Brook'y's item are both off-set) Or is it the entry shape? (again, both seem to enter the throttle body at 90 degs to air flow).

So, is there an ideal connection method from the filter? Would something like the Novitec airbox be a better option? Does anyone have power claims from Novitec (Oldschool please note that this reference to 'power claim' is not me having a dig at them and their so called 'claims', I really am genuinly interested in their 'claimed power increase', if they ever stated any at the time)

EDIT, can I just add again that I am not against GSR induction kits, as I have a 1242 engine ready to be fitted, and I will have to use one of your kits, so you may well be getting an order from me at some point.

 

[Brooky]

I've learned a few things too. First the GSR induction kit inhibited power beyond about 70bhp - mainly this is due to the 899 bob being too close to the top of the TB, but also the size of the pipe (38mm compared with the 43mm Tricker TB). So I need to fabricate a bespoke plenum to fit on top of the TB to assist air flow. Watch this space.

From nitranes thread

 

[Oldschool]

From nitranes thread

How comes that I got with the 30mm throttle body and the standard 899 bop with the induction kit had topped out at 83bhp? The reason why it was at 83bhp was neither the 30mm throttle body nor the bop rather than the single point injection not capable of delivering more fuel. The engine is a 1242 with ported and flowed head, high compression, induction kit, 866 cam, Supersprint back box and properly mapped. Injection is standard with standard pressure, remaining exhaust is standard.

I haven't had the time to convert the SPI to MPI, but we know from the 75, what Nitrane has learned is wrong.

How to improve the induction:

Using the 899 bop; Radius the end of the tube inside the bop and alter the trumpet on the throttle body to a less turbulent shape.

Making your own bop: It needs to be about 9 inch in diameter and 2.5+ inches high but no more than 3.5 inches. Intake daimeter I would limit to 40mm. Ewtreme short trumpets with ellypitical shape on a plate bolted to the throttle body.

Don't ask me to draw it on the PC. I can make a drawing at a meet.

 

[chaos]

From nitranes thread

What needs to be said is this (to be totally accurate)

I don't want to get tedious about this, but my RR experience is that the 899 bob in my application restricted the power to around 70bhp. So its use is fine in std tune engines where you want to sort out the inadequacies of the std air box design. Go beyond that and it really strangles the engine above 4000rpm - remember my working rev range is 5-7000rpm.

Peter, have you got a link for the RR run you mentioned? I'd be interested in seeing it, because I don't think I've seen it before

 

[Oldschool]

What needs to be said is this (to be totally accurate)



Peter, have you got a link for the RR run you mentioned? I'd be interested in seeing it, because I don't think I've seen it before

I have got the print out from thre different cars on the day, but I am useless to put them pictures up. I think Dave has got to fix this for me.

 

[chaos]

I have got the print out from thre different cars on the day, but I am useless to put them pictures up. I think Dave has got to fix this for me.

Have you got it scanned and saved on your PC? It's straightforward enough to get them uploaded to the FF gallery then.

EDIT: Coming back on topic; I say try it, see what happens