Technical Immobilizer Immobiliser or how my 2003 2.0 swb fiat Ducato left me stranded.

[StHawk]

Ok… my van died..we are in the Netherlands and are planning to return to Italy next Monday.
But.. the van won’t start…

So here is what happened.
2 days ago the van after running quite well, would not start after shutting it off for 10 min.
Crank/no start condition no lights on the dash but the temperature gauge would pin the H for a second and sweep down.
Solution: pulled the negative battery cable waited 5 minutes then re installed. Car started no problem

Yesterday I had to run some errands get a headlight bulb, go to the ANWB and get a Vignette for Switzerland and pick up my sister in law. When I tried to start the car, again it would crank but not start. I pulled the negative cable Again re installed it this time only after about 30 seconds and it started no problem.
Picked up and dropped off SIL never turned off the van.
Went to local farm store/shop and picked up a couple headlight bulbs installed the one that was out and… the van won’t start… so I disconnected the neg cable AGAIN. Van starts and I am on my way.
Here’s where things get really frustrating. Get to Purmerend get the vignette go out to the van and of course now it’s raining and van won’t start.
Only this time I pulled the negative cable reinstalled it and it cranked no start but the yellow beacon of despair was glowing on the dash. The immobilizer light.
So at this point I pulled the battery cable and walked to the store to get road trip food… came back to the van 1 hour 15 minutes later, reconnected the cable, and still no joy.

After reading as much as I could on my phone I am certain I have an immobilizer issue.
So. I have a couple questions.
1-where is the inertia switch? Because perhaps it needs resetting.
2- is there a solid way to by pass the immobilizer so I don’t ever have this issue again?
3- where is the immobilizer?

Now..here is what I’ve gathered. Please if I am wrong, someone chime in. There is so much info on this topic it’s difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff.
The immobilizer cuts off fuel to the injector pump? So ther is a solenoid you can trick. Is that correct?

Thanks for the help
Again,
Jeremy

 

[jackwhoo]

Hi,

the underlying problem could be a faulty ground cable/s or connection/s where ground cable connects to vehicle.

Sometimes ground cables break down under the insulation so look fine but are bad.




Your imobiliser light only came on after the faults started.

Never disconnect reconnect battery with key in ignition even if switch if off.



Good luck

Cheers

Jack

 

[StHawk]

Never disconnect reconnect battery with key in ignition even if switch if off.

Ummm why? And what if I have?

 

[jackwhoo]

Ummm why? And what if I have?

It can cause imobiliser problems.

Do start with grounds first though.

Gauges going to full while trying to crank is a classic faulty ground symptom.

J

 

[StHawk]

Ok. I have continuity from the batter ground to the chassis and to the engine. I don’t particularly like the ground cable end on the battery, it is flimsy and can’t be tightened enough.
My van s a 2003 2.0 diesel and I don’t seem to have the. Immobilizer on the ignition switch. Here is what things look like.

 

[RalphM]

Isn't the black plastic bit at the key end of the switch the immobiliser Ariel.

 

[Anthony489]

Hi

If you have a dashboard light with a padlock symbol, you have an immobiliser. The pickup coil (antenna) which "talks" to the transponder part of the key is inside the plastic ring round the key-hole. I have shown it in red on your photo. If the immobiliser in the vehicle can't pick up any code, or picks up a code that doesn't match one on its list, the padlock symbol will show and starting is inhibited.

However, your early non-starts didn't have the light on. This suggests that the immobiliser is recognising the key, but there is an intermittent problem somewhere else. Odd behaviour of the gauges suggest a problem with the main live feed or with the earth return to the battery. If the gauge feed is misbehaving, other electronic equipment (including the immobiliser module) could be equally affected.

Your van may be of the vintage where the earth to the body is part way along the starter return cable to the battery. This body connection can go bad WITHOUT affecting the starter, as its only the "side branch" that has a poor connection. A close inspection/partial dismantle and clean up is recommended. The same applies to the battery terminals, these need to be A1 performance.

 

[StHawk]

Hi

If you have a dashboard light with a padlock symbol, you have an immobiliser. The pickup coil (antenna) which "talks" to the transponder part of the key is inside the plastic ring round the key-hole. I have shown it in red on your photo. If the immobiliser in the vehicle can't pick up any code, or picks up a code that doesn't match one on its list, the padlock symbol will show and starting is inhibited.

However, your early non-starts didn't have the light on. This suggests that the immobiliser is recognising the key, but there is an intermittent problem somewhere else. Odd behaviour of the gauges suggest a problem with the main live feed or with the earth return to the battery. If the gauge feed is misbehaving, other electronic equipment (including the immobiliser module) could be equally affected.

Your van may be of the vintage where the earth to the body is part way along the starter return cable to the battery. This body connection can go bad WITHOUT affecting the starter, as its only the "side branch" that has a poor connection. A close inspection/partial dismantle and clean up is recommended. The same applies to the battery terminals, these need to be A1 performance.

Ok… I will check and repair the grounds from and to the battery tomorrow.

I will say, however that the gauges aren’t misbehaving now. And yesterday’s strangeness might have been due to my not tightening the fitting to the battery well enough.
Thanks ,
I will keep everyone up to date as I hate when these trials leave one hanging..

Thanks,
Jeremy

 

[Communicator]

May I start by confirming @Anthony489 's statement regarding the earthing arrangement. I am assuming from the year that the vehicle is an x244 model, as is mine. (VIN number will read xxx244............, for which see vehicle plate, or registration document.)

As has been suggested the black ring around the key entry point of the ignition switch is the immobiliser aerial. The aerial is connected to the immobiliser code receiver module under the steering column, by a thin 2 core screened cable. This is the cable with white zig-za.g pattern in the braiding, and has been reported as going open circuit.

Also there have been reports of faulty connections at the main code receiver connector. I am thinking about cleaning the connectors on miy vehicle, but in general I currently support Anthony489's suggestion of tuning drift between the immobiliser module, and the chip in the key.

The immobiliser cannot be removed inn the physical sense, but it may be possible to have the ECU reprogrammed to remove the need for the start permission from the immobiliser.

The basic operation of the system is that when the ignition is switched on, the code receiver interrogates the key chip, and if the received code matches one in a stored list, coded messages ar exchanged between the ECU, and the code receiver. Fuel injection is then permitted.

For a more complete explanation see the following link.

http://4cardata.info/elearn/244/2/244000001/244000003/244000005/244001998

I am also attaching photos of the earthing connections on the x244 model. The main chassis earth connection is below the battery, in front of the engine mounting.

 

[jackwhoo]

Hi J,

If you have a second key ...try it...turn key until warning lights come on... wait a few seconds and pray that the yellow immo light goes out.

Using a meter to check continuity of ground cables/connections is not great as the cable can break down under high current but give good meter readings.

J

 

[StHawk]

Hi J,

If you have a second key ...try it...turn key until warning lights come on... wait a few seconds and pray that the yellow immo light goes out.

Using a meter to check continuity of ground cables/connections is not great as the cable can break down under high current but give good meter readings.

J

Unfortunately, I only got 1 key with the van.
I will check the ground connections, but short of making new ones, I’m not sure how much that will help. But I will pull all the bolts and clean the grounding surfaces with sand paper and acetone. If I see anything suspect I will replace it.
If that doesn’t help, what should I do? I hate to send it off to a shop, but that may be my only course of action.
Thanks everyone for the input, it’s a big help having information I didn’t have yesterday.

Jeremy

 

[Mike1alike]

The IMMO light could have lit up due to low battery voltage. Considering all your previous day crancking, you may have drained the battery and did not run the van enough for the battery to recharge.
And the first problem does seem to be caused by bad earth connection and this

I don’t particularly like the ground cable end on the battery, it is flimsy and can’t be tightened enough.

looks to have something to do with.

 

[jackwhoo]

Unfortunately, I only got 1 key with the van.
I will check the ground connections, but short of making new ones, I’m not sure how much that will help. But I will pull all the bolts and clean the grounding surfaces with sand paper and acetone. If I see anything suspect I will replace it.
If that doesn’t help, what should I do? I hate to send it off to a shop, but that may be my only course of action.
Thanks everyone for the input, it’s a big help having information I didn’t have yesterday.

Jeremy

Hi,
Sorry I completely forgot to suggest an automotive locksmith as an option to check imobiliser system and recode your key to system if that is the problem.

Plus mike1alikes suggestion of possible battery low state of charge.

Cheers
Jack

 

[RalphM]

If the flip style remote key and the padlock is on the display open the key
and look at the extended bit on the pcb key end, his there a black oblong
soldered on there if so see if it has any sighs of cracking on the connections
try just a gentle push on the connection towards the oblong if it is a bad connection
it may be enough to get it to start but it will fail again unless soldered.

 

[RalphM]

Maybe if there's a car locksmith near by you could ask them to see if
the immobiliser key can be read if there machine cant read the key
it's likely that.

 

[StHawk]

Ok.
I started chasing down all the ground to chassis and engine connections and found a couple issues. The battery terminal end of the ground cable was cracked and being that it was one of the stamped sheet metal clamps there wasn’t the best connection. I am replacing it with a better clamp and I cleaned the body ground so that cable is good now.
But the flat braid ground strap that runs from the bell housing to the body under the air box looked suspect as there was a lot of rust on it… for some reason fiat made a stainless steel plate with a stud on one side to through bolt the ground strap to. The bolt was rusted partway through and there was rust under the plate and between the plate and the ground strap. I have pulled it, the bolt broke, and I will drill it out in the morning and remount it so that the strap is clamped between the stainless plate and the body which will make a way better connection than was there.
I am also taking the immobilizer box, key and Ecu to a shop that specializes in Ecu repair, and having them fix the situation with that mess.
This is beyond frustrating and I have to get on the road by Friday. Working in a barn full of cows with only a small box of tools and not my shop is wearing on my spirits and it’s too early in the year for that.
Thanks for all the input. I will let you know what happens next
Jeremy

 

[jackwhoo]

@StHawk

Hi,
Very keen to know how are you getting on? Hope you have some good news.

Best wishes

Jack

 

[StHawk]

Ok. Current situation, pardon the pun…
I repaired all the grounding points, cleaned, sanded, retapped the hole for the ground strap.
I bought a proper cable end for the ground lead to the battery and put everything back together.
Still no joy. Had ANWB, (AA, or AAA in UK or USA) and this time the guy was more helpful and communicative. He says the key isn’t sending a signal. We tried to get the key apart, but neither of us could without destroying it. So if there is a trick that would be nice to know and if someone has done it tell me or point to a video but since there is nothing in this key except the chip it’s sealed up tight…
So here is what I think happened.
The rust to the ground strap was so bad that it was causing issues. I could pull the cable off the battery and it would fix the issue.
I pulled the cable off the battery with the key in the ignition, and this caused the immobilizer to scramble and come on.
Nothing turns it off in the first series of immobilizer. Once that light appears on the dash. You are done.
The only repair is to have someone recode the key, to communicate with the immobilizer unit.
So. I pulled the ECU, the immobilizer unit and took them and the key to a guy who repairs Ecus.
I will let you know the outcome. Thanks for staying with me.
If I am misunderstanding how this works chime in.
Thanks again,
Jeremy

 

[RalphM]

With the cars there is a defeat code to turn off the immobilizer if your van is the same
and you don't have the code maybe a Fiat dealer would be able to help.

 

[jackwhoo]

Hi Jeremy,

Nice job sorting out ground points etc.

Getting into your key would have gained nothing and possibly damaged the immobilser chip.

Glad ANWB person more helpful.

Some locksmiths/technitions have a device that does not connect to vehicle but checks the key is able to send a code/ signal. If ANWB had one of those tools then be reasonably confident that the key is faulty and you just need a new key(or preferably 2 ) programmed to the vehicle.


Good luck with this ecu repair people.

Thanks for updates.


Best wishes

Jack