I WANT 200BHP!!!!!!

[Andrew Hodgson]

I need some expert advice. When my HGT is due for a cambelt change I thought since the engine will be out anyway why not have it modified? I haven't got a lot of knowledge as to what would be possible but I was thinking along the lines of performance camshafts and getting the heads polished. Is 200bhp realistic? Who's best to take my car to? Would appreciate any advise. I know some of you will think why bother, why not by a faster car. I want to be different, I want a werewolf in sheeps clothing. I'm not planning any exterior modifications. Maybe one day with your help I will give a Porsche a nasty surprise!!!(Joke)

 

[Nigel]

Fair Play

You are talking proper mods now, but you must be propared to spend spend spend! You will need machined parts, lightened and balanced crank, uplift cam, lightened everything and basically stage 3 modified to go from 155 (assume mk2) to 200, which is basically 25% increase. This aint no inducation kit nor will you retain your standard exhaust (Exept at MOT time!) so you will need storage and money for 2 exhausts.

When you have done that, you will need to sort the brakes, suspension, and probably the gearbox may require some sort of mod (I dont know...is the HGT 'box the same as the coupe turbo?).

You may also need to do some structural stuff at the front as the HGT isn't that stiff.

All in you are looking at £5k plus, and I will love you to go for a proper job, but are you sure? I love the wolf in sheeps clothing aproach, there are far too many the other way round.

Your best idea is to but Auto Italia and go through thte race prep people to start with then also go to a few rounds of the auto Italia race series where you have easy pit access and talk to people. The latter will only be too pleased to help as they may be on sponsorship from some developers.

Keep me posted n progress and I will give ideas and search out some contacts from my Alfa days if it would help.

Best of luck

Nige

 

[Spyder]

Re: Fair Play

I think Nige is a bit of the mark there. My car has induction kit(homemade), removed resonater box, custom exhaust, de-cat pipe, strut brace and a few other tweaks, it's kicking out in the region of 170bhp.
While u got the engine out get the head ported but only use someone who no's Fiats as in standard spec the engine stats are comparable with Cosworth engines as used by Fords. Also I would suggest having the flywheel lightend and balanced. Uprated cams will cost u in the region of £600(f'ing expensive).
This is a highly capable engine but is under developed and a rare beast, it will allways be expensive to mod.
There is acompany in West Yorkshire that I use reg', they are Betacars at Cullingworth, West Yorshire, tel 01535 275560.

 

[Dug]

Are you sure?

Spyder, have you had your car on a respected rolling road? I very much doubt the figures you quote. Unless the standard exhaust and induction are very badly designed, you won't release more than 5 to 10 percent with these minor tweaks.

Nigel has got it right: you need to alter the major engine components, which is difficult and expensive, which is why most people just stick a filter and rear box on their car and kid themselves that they've got a street racer.

It's just a thought, but if you're serious about 200bhp, you could always go the turbo route...it might even be a little cheaper. You'll need the turbo head (lower compression) and a company that know what they're doing, but it's worth getting a price for both routes.

Personally I'd always go for a properly prepared, normally aspirated engine because I don't like turbos, but each to their own.

PS: lightened flywheels do sort of help, but it's not always a great idea: it can make the engine really lumpy. That's fine in a racing car, but less pleasant on the road.

 

[Nigel]

Spyder / Dug

Spyder, even if you did get 170 you need to get an extra 30 - and you have sort of done the easy bits, I took it for granted that the components you mentioned would be matched to the mods.

Dug, I agree on the normally aspirated route, having had powerful cars both turbo and NA the latter are so much nicer to drive. Have a question though about the lightened flywheel causing lumpy running, any idea why?

I did think one other thing as well, all your air conditioning stuff would have to be lost to attain your goal, which may give some room for the turbo kit.

Keep us posted

Nige

 

[JohnM]

Fly Wheel

The fly wheel is used to carry momentum on the missed stroke, if you lighten it it carrys less mommentum so you get lumpy running usully at lower revs but it depends how much lighter it is

 

[Dug]

I was going to say that!

I had a really light flywheel on a 1380cc A Series engine, and it did run a bit lumpily (if that's a word). However, I've got a slightly lightened flywheel on my 1860cc B series, and you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference from standard (but then they always did run like a tractor).

The other point is a lighter flywheel reduces torque, which is a bad thing...you only get more power because the engine is more free-revving and can spin to higher speeds.

 

[Spyder]

well lane turbo

Yes it was on Well Lane Turbo's rolling road, the actual reading(having checked printout) is 168bhp. I agree about lightend flywheel, but u can't always have your cake and the cherry aswell.
Performance tuning is always a compromise, it depends on far u want to go.
I am currently looking into other methods and ideas, but it is an expensive engine to tune at the best of times, but I here what you are saying. May even call it quits and buy a Coup Turbo.


P.S My Marea was a 155 model, 10% of 155 is 15.5 , and that was before de-cat pipe.

 

[David]

!!!

'Nige'! You're a bloody know-all aren't you!?

 

[Tom]

Re: I was going to say that!

Its a tradeoff. If you put a light flywheel on (my mini had a steel jobbie which weighed nothing!) then you get lumpy idle.

If you put a big cam in then you also get lumpy idle.

If you put BOTH you get smooth idle. The big cam means large overlap and bad mixture at idle so its lumpy cos there is not much power there. A light flywheel means the engine does not take as much power to idle smoothly hence it all works out.

You also do not need that much momentum to idle a big cam as you probably ain't getting enough mixture in the cylinder (due to overlap) so the effective compression ratio goes down.

What I do like about big cams and light flywheels and big 'ole carbs is thumping the throttle and the engine picking up IMMEDIATELY and making lots of pops, bangs and general nasty noises when you lift.

Brummm-Brummm-cough-BANG!

I'd like to see a Bravo make the classic Weber carb'd overrun crackle!

 

[Nigel]

No!

All I try to do is to get posters to think more in depth about what they are trying to achieve. This comes across as very agressive to some, amusing to thers and offensive to some.

Honest

Nige

 

[Nick]

Lightened flywheel

Does lightening the flywheel make any practical difference? OK it would make the idle lumpy and if you rev the engine in neutral it would pick up quicker, but when you attach the gearbox, road wheels and the mass of the vehicle (as you try and move the car) are you not just attaching another giant effective flywheel?
OK so the cars a bit lighter but so what? But it must have some effect otherwise people wouldn't do it, but why?!!

 

[Si]

re:Nigel

Honest Nigel?

You should have your own column.

Give Honest John a run for his money.

 

[Tom]

Re: Lightened flywheel

It will only really make a difference if you have a very light car, a low ratio final drive and an engine that will rev off the scale.

So on a road going bravo, I doubt it would do anything except make traffic lights a nightmare.