Technical How to tell which injector is not so good?

[Gehngus]

Hi again.
Another issue. 2010 ducato with the 2.2 ford engine.

I have an iffy injector. Knocking when cold.
Occasionally misses when hot. Otherwise runs fine.

I'm not used to Multiecuscan so no idea if I can use this to identify the lazy injector?

Using forscan on my other van I can see the engine ballance, and this can show which is failing. But there is no option in Multiecuscan.

Any clues on which setting might help me find the poor injector that knock when cold.

Or.. Any other way to tell?

I have already had them all out and there is no visual indication which is bad.

Many thanks.

 

[bugsymike]

Hi again.
Another issue. 2010 ducato with the 2.2 ford engine.

I have an iffy injector. Knocking when cold.
Occasionally misses when hot. Otherwise runs fine.

I'm not used to Multiecuscan so no idea if I can use this to identify the lazy injector?

Using forscan on my other van I can see the engine ballance, and this can show which is failing. But there is no option in Multiecuscan.

Any clues on which setting might help me find the poor injector that knock when cold.

Or.. Any other way to tell?

I have already had them all out and there is no visual indication which is bad.

Many thanks.

I am guessing this is the Ford Puma engine, so maybe on one of the Ford sites greater information available.
I have a 2010 Scudo that uses the Peugeot 2.0 litre 16v engine and had some helpful advice from their sites.
Also for that vehicle I had to use MAXIECUscan tool as MES didn't list it.
I also found unlike the smaller Fiat MJ engines where you can code the injectors, the Peugeot engine using the scan tool did it in a different way.
Can you read the correction values on individual injectors as a guide in "live data ".
Another thing is some people mention the wiring and plugs to the injectors having problems.
A general test for injectors is the "leak off test" where if one is faulty/worn it often has a higher reading of leakage.
Finally is there any air getting in to the system, maybe overnight from a fuel filter etc. as even a tiny bubble of air will cause knocking and misfire until it clears through the injectors.
On the Peugeot 2.0 version there is a known problem with air from splits in the primer bulb circuit as they do not use an electric pump in the tank.

 

[MSjoberg]

I'm not used to Multiecuscan so no idea if I can use this to identify the lazy injector?

You can see which parameters and functions MES has access to by downloading the free version from multiecuscan.net and run it in Simulate mode, with your car model selected.

 

[Gehngus]

Yes. This is the puma engine.
I have checked all the options in MU and cant see one that would help, but im not sure what they mean.
Air inside might be a problem as I have changed the injectors a few times, but not the o rings. Maybe it is this? The engine runs much smoother after being driven for a while.
It is also hunting badly when first started.

I suspect there will be air after changing injectors. Is there a way to clear this I wonder?

 

[bugsymike]

Yes. This is the puma engine.
I have checked all the options in MU and cant see one that would help, but im not sure what they mean.
Air inside might be a problem as I have changed the injectors a few times, but not the o rings. Maybe it is this? The engine runs much smoother after being driven for a while.
It is also hunting badly when first started.

I suspect there will be air after changing injectors. Is there a way to clear this I wonder?

Normally once run for a few minutes any air in system will clear out, so I would tend to discount that.
My thoughts were more air getting in via the low pressure side on a more regular basis, as in after left overnight.
Also being Ford? Puma based does it have the plastic square box fuel filter with several pipes and sensors on it?
It may be worth checking for any suspicious damp/diesel areas.
I am only guessing , but the fact it clears may indicate that.
If on the other hand you are getting white smoke from exhaust and worse on cold weather start ups, then different subject again, starting with heater plug side etc.

 

[Gehngus]

Normally once run for a few minutes any air in system will clear out, so I would tend to discount that.
My thoughts were more air getting in via the low pressure side on a more regular basis, as in after left overnight.
Also being Ford? Puma based does it have the plastic square box fuel filter with several pipes and sensors on it?
It may be worth checking for any suspicious damp/diesel areas.
I am only guessing , but the fact it clears may indicate that.
If on the other hand you are getting white smoke from exhaust and worse on cold weather start ups, then different subject again, starting with heater plug side etc.

I get no white smoke and the mot shows very low emisions.
This hunting, and knocking when starting in the moning didnt happen until after I had changed the injectors.
I think you may be correct about air getting in overnight because its only after being sat overnight or for a long time I get it.
Maybe I haven't tightened the nuts enough when putting the fuel tubes back on? In fact I might have mis threaded one of them.

Can I use ptfe tape or plumbers white on these? Or is there a way to check if air is getting in? Maybe a solution I can spray on or wrap around to stop the ingress of air?

Many thanks.

 

[bugsymike]

I get no white smoke and the mot shows very low emisions.
This hunting, and knocking when starting in the moning didnt happen until after I had changed the injectors.
I think you may be correct about air getting in overnight because its only after being sat overnight or for a long time I get it.
Maybe I haven't tightened the nuts enough when putting the fuel tubes back on? In fact I might have mis threaded one of them.

Can I use ptfe tape or plumbers white on these? Or is there a way to check if air is getting in? Maybe a solution I can spray on or wrap around to stop the ingress of air?

Many thanks.

If the injector pipes or pipes leading to the common rail from the high pressure pump are leaking I would expect it to be visible as at extremely high pressure so do not get your hands any where near it as can be well over 600 Bar(9000psi !) so ptfe tape or anything else would not seal it and I would strongly advise against it. It is quite capable of penetrating your skin given blood poisoning and hospital visit!!!
To be honest I would suspect a leak on the inlet side of the high pressure pump if anywhere.
Best to clean off all pipework and dry with a tissue, then run for a few minutes, switch off and rub a clean tissue around all the joints to see if any show wet.
If the "misthreaded pipe" is a low pressure one that could be the cause, but if it was on the high pressure side the engine would most likely not start unlike older pre common rail diesels where if one pipe was loose the engine would just keep going on three cylinders.
With Common Rail systems if pressure drops the computer will not even allow engine to start.
So most likely air getting in on a inlet pipe or fuel filter etc.
If your engine uses a low pressure electric pump in the fuel tank that you can hear when you turn the ignition light on, then you may be able to try the tissue check without actually running the engine.
Basically if fuel can leak out , then overnight air can leak in, giving the misfire on start up.
Is there any smell of diesel under the bonnet around the engine?