Help not sure what to do

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Help not sure what to do

fiat doblo newbie

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Hello everyone I hope you don’t mind but i really need some advice , I have no clue what to do so any help would be appreciated. I own a fiat Doblo Active M-jet 120 2009 I Bought it two years ago, unfortunately I’m not sure if I got a good deal or I may have been silly buying the car it was for my 3 very large dogs and diy pick up etc. I bought it’s for £1250 since then I replaced the window screen as it had a crack in it, but the car has lost it’s gloss and no longer red, sort of orange now it’s passed it’s MOT. But the last one he said I needed a new clutch and maybe flywheel I’ve bought new tires for it. I then paid for a 54 point through (Groupon) check which involved a diagnostic check, a few months ago. It came back with front disk + pads, front springs, exhaust poor condition, exhaust bracket cracking, reverse light, he also said there’s an oil leak but could see from where’s as it’s full of oil that’s been there’s for a very long time, he also said that’s there’s a little hole in the exhaust to keep using to till it’s blows. He never mentioned anything about the clutch. But I’m not sure about that either. Now if it’s sits for long periods the battery goes flat, I’ve managed jump start it twice but now I can’t so I think it’s need a new battery. Apologies for the long story, what I want to know is, should I have it fixed is it worth it putting more money into it. Or would I be better of getting rid of it and getting my self a little van type or something similar as this is why I bought the doblo, it’s a great to drive and I’m able to put 2 bikes into it, take the dogs out , I’ve put garden stuff in the back I.e slabs I’ve been able to buy furniture and done many skips runs. It’s what I needed it for. If it’s not worth me putting more money in could anyone recommend what would be the best, and budget wise. Apologies for all the questions but I don’t know what to do and I would appreciate anyone’s help.
 

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@fiat doblo newbie
Welcome to FiatForum.
It's alwy difficult when a vehicle seems to be eating money, but generally you will get far less selling a vehicle with fault than one without. What else would you buy? A van will be noiser, possibly not as nice to drive and you may have to pay VAT. Yous hould also check on insurance a commercials can be expensive. The difference between what you get selling a car with faults and what you pay a "better" replacment is almost always more than bringing the existing vehicle up to a good standard. Batteries and clutches are service items. The ones on a replacement vehicle could also fail without warning. It does sound like you need new battery. With lockdown continuing it would be worth investin in a small battery charger so you can top it up when the car is standing. The clutch may go on for many miles without failing even if it it not perfect. Have you noticed any problems changing gear or pulling away?

The dull paint can be fixed by a good valeting company. You could do it yourself but thee is alway a rik you could make it worse if you haven't done it before or have somone to show you.
I'd keep it.

Robert G8RPI.
 
I'm with Robert keep it. Sounds like it does exactly what you want it too.

If you paid for a vehicle check the person who did the check will noted anything not 100% , lots of things can look less than 100% but be functioning well enough.

The items mentioned are just the costs of motoring. If you replaced current vehicle you could easily end up buying another vehicle with the same faults.



How many miles has your doblo covered?
 
Ok, thanks guys l, that’s one of the things I had discussed to my mum that I could end up buying another vehicle and then still have to pay out, I do love the doblo it’s great to drive. And when I had the first MOT Done the garage man said it was a great little runner. I have noticed there’s problems with the clutch it’s hard to change the gear and started shaking so I had it checked with a diesel specialists as he was looking at a fault code they said it the clutch. As you probably noticed I’m not great with cars but have bought books so I could learn and even body shop books. Jackwoo the list I put down was the only things that came up, on the check. That’s why I wasn’t sure what to do, the only time it failed mot was for a worn tire and that got sorted straight away. Because I don’t know about cars I didn’t no if I was just wasting my money. As to regard the mileage it was 103097
Also when I tried to jump start the car I went to my car the doblo to start it up and the jump lead on the negative cable started smoking on my doblo, I had jump started it the same way as always and had checked I done it right, so that scared the crap out of me.but the lights on the dashboard had come on before that but only started smoking when I tried to start it up.
Thanks for helping me.
Allison
 
You are very welcome.

Lots of people are suffering from flat battery and or needing new battery due to lock down reduced car usage . Engines not running long enough to recharge battery.

103,000miles is not a lot for the 1.9 engine.

The smoking jump lead is probably the jump lead not being thick enough for the job.

When jump starting -connect the leads and run the working cars engine at a high idle speed for 10 minutes before attempting to start the vehicle with flat battery.

If you can park off road and get an extension lead to your car consider getting a battery charger.

Wait for your glow plug light to go out before cranking engine.



Best wishes

Jack
 
Thank you jack, you stopped me panicking, I’m will definitely do that. I think I need to invest in a battery charger. Much appreciated.
 
Thank you jack, you stopped me panicking, I’m will definitely do that. I think I need to invest in a battery charger. Much appreciated.


The easy.to.fit

'Battery isolators' could save a lot of grief too.. :)

Its like a tap.. that you turn on or off for the 'flow of power' from the battery ;)

No flow.. the battery will last months (y)
 
The battery chargers that periodically appear in Lidl or aldi are both very good.

If you do fully charge your battery(possibly 20hrs on charge) and it does still go flat that is a sign could need new battery.
Battery does not last forever and a battery left flat for any length of time becomes damaged.
 
Hello Allison, sorry to hear of your tribulations. So much good advice being given here so thought I'd pitch in with my ha'penny worth?

Jack mentions about how cars need to be run fairly frequently to keep the battery charged. If a normal car battery is allowed to sit dormant without being fully charged it will rapidly decline and become unable to accept a charge. Then you need a new one! However there's other "stuff" which benefits from the vehicle actually being driven, like brakes etc. Being a diesel you'll have a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) on your exhaust. Just to explain this is a device which catches carbon particles (soot) which the engine emits as a result of burning it's fuel. It needs to be able to reduce this to ash (which takes up much less volume and so it can store) to do this it needs to do a "Regeneration". It does this entirely automatically but needs for the engine to be fully up to temperature and to run continuously for maybe 15 to 20 minutes (it varies) If it can't do this eventually it will block up and that's a problem not easily resolved. So take it for a good drive maybe once a month or so - some say it should be every week? - and you're not so likely to have a problem. Also run your Air Con regularly or the seals will tend to dry out and you'll loose the refrigerant gasses. Often once a system starts to leak it's quite difficult to stop it. So just run the Air Con regularly (I have mine on at least once a week and don't get any problems) by the way it doesn't have to be because you want cold air from the vents! You can have it on with the heater controls at hot. Actually if you do so you'll find it demists the screen more quickly too.

Now thinking about jump starting. First off let's think about the jump leads themselves. Generally speaking the very cheap sets you see are a waste of time. With jump leads it's all about being able to pass large currents (amounts of electricity) so small diameter wires or wires made from materials which don't conduct electricity efficiently are a waste of time. Some of the cheap sets use aluminium wire - I had a set like that and it had two problems. The Aluminium wires were brittle and snapped but more of a problem was that the crimped connection between the steel spring clamps and the wire was electrically inefficient so resisted the flow of electricity! I junked them and bought a copper cored set, which, as they too were crimped connections, I then soldered the wires to the clamps for better conductivity. Cheaply crimped connections where high current is being demanded are a big limiting factor and often limit performance on cheap leads. Now soldered these have worked very well indeed on pretty much all petrol engined vehicles I've used them on but they struggled a bit on my 1.9 tdi SEAT Cordoba - just couldn't pass enough electricity (current) they were getting warm to the hand. Then I had a stroke of luck. At work I used to do the 24 hour standby on the breakdown service and our boss bought a new set of jump leads for the breakdown truck. He let me buy the old set for a pittance - Happy Days! Here's a couple of picture of the lead sets:

P1090593.JPG

P1090590.JPG

Just for scale I've got the car keys in the shot. The big thing though is the size of the wire. just look at the wire thickness of the "commercial" black set. You can see also that although the orange set look thick the size of the wire is tiny compared to the black set - you can see how I soldered the wires in the orange set too. Notice the black set also has "proper" bolted connections. The big black set would start commercial vehicles whereas my relatively cheap orange "DIY" set are fine for doing most of the Family cars. (I tend to use the black ones all the time though because they are longer)

Jack also mentions about making your connections (Positive to positive on the batteries then Negative on good jumper to chassis earth/engine block on "flat" vehicle - we could talk a lot about this but let's leave it at that for now) then start up the "good" vehicle and let it "feed" the flat battery for 10 minutes or so. When you see people doing a jump they very seldom do this but it's a very good thing to do. Because, the flat battery, especially if it's very flat, will "soak up" some of the electricity available from the good battery. This can have a couple of detrimental effects. Most obviously there may not be enough "left over" to crank over the vehicle with the flat battery but also the jump leads are going to have to work much harder to pass current to the flat battery and the starter motor at the same time. Although 10 minutes or so of charging before you try to crank the non starter will not charge the flat battery fully it will very greatly reduce the current the flat battery is trying to draw. By the way, always give the clamps a good "wiggle" when connecting to ensure a good electrical circuit is being established. With such heavy current being passed a poor connection can overheat and smoke. Jack advises to run the engine at a fast idle and he's, as usual, so right. Modern alternators charge well at quite moderate revs, often charging quite "enthusiastically" even at idle, so I'd say you shouldn't need to run the engine of the "good" car at much more than 2,000 to 2,500 rpm to achieve a good charging result. Basically don't sit there revving it's head off!

He also mentions Battery chargers and I'm a great advocate of periodically using a good quality charger even if the car is starting fine. If the car isn't going to be driven really regularly I'd say it's a must. If you are going to buy one then get a modern "smart" charger and you can then charge the battery on the vehicle without needing to disconnect any of the car's battery connections. Here's my little collection of chargers:

P1090595.JPG

The big blue and white one I bought back in the '70's and is an old style transformer type and not at all what you want. It charges old style lead acid batteries fine but you must disconnect the main car leads on modern cars or it might damage the electronics. The one on the bottom is a cheap one bought from, as Jack mentions, Aldi/Lidl, I can't remember which, and is an excellent little modern inverter type charger. I've used it on family cars, without disconnecting the car's leads, and it's worked absolutely fine. The one on top is my premium brand CTEK which is very similar to the wee Tronic but has a higher available charge rate (7 amps as against 3.6 amps for the Tronic) and has "clever" advance functions which the Tronic does not. Something like the Tronic would be ideal for most people.

What do you do about servicing and repairs? It sounds like you don't probably do this yourself? If so have you found yourself a nice wee independent garage? Personally I'd advise against "Lightening Fit" "drive straight in" type setups. If you haven't already found somewhere like this maybe one of the Forum members can advise if you say roughly where you are based.

Sorry for the length of post! hope even a wee bit of it was useful?
Regards
Jock
 
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Hello jock
thank you for all your advice. As can see form your photos the big difference abs I think I have really cheap jump leads I bought them from Argos, and thought they were ok as I had been able to jump start the car twice. I think I may have just got lucky, on them occasions. I’m to blame for the battery been flat as I wasn’t turning it over like I should. And with the lock down things got worse. Thank you for the advice for which chargers to get as I wasn’t sure which ones to get as they kept saying lead battery, gel battery so wasn’t 100% which was the best. I’ve also bought a battery tester. .......As for the garages I found a little small garage the bloke is very honest and I do normally book with him, but he’s said himself that I could find a cheaper place for a new clutch a flywheel but haven’t looked yet. I’m based in Coventry. Thanks again
Allison
 
Hi everyone I just want to say a massive thank you to all the advice given to me, I was a little nervous about posting, as you can tell I’m struggling with the car and anything to do with the car.but everyone has made me feel at ease. So I’m very grateful for that.
Allison
 
Hello jock
thank you for all your advice. As can see form your photos the big difference abs I think I have really cheap jump leads I bought them from Argos, and thought they were ok as I had been able to jump start the car twice. I think I may have just got lucky, on them occasions. I’m to blame for the battery been flat as I wasn’t turning it over like I should. And with the lock down things got worse. Thank you for the advice for which chargers to get as I wasn’t sure which ones to get as they kept saying lead battery, gel battery so wasn’t 100% which was the best. I’ve also bought a battery tester. .......As for the garages I found a little small garage the bloke is very honest and I do normally book with him, but he’s said himself that I could find a cheaper place for a new clutch a flywheel but haven’t looked yet. I’m based in Coventry. Thanks again
Allison

You're very welcome. With cheaper jump leads with thinner wire and crimped connections get the wires soldered to the clamps, it really does make a difference. Also, with cheap "iffy" lead sets, if you always leave the leads connected for maybe ten minutes before trying the starter motor you're giving yourself the best chance of it working as the flat battery will take on a bit of a charge and be less demanding so the starter can get a good chance of turning the engine over. If you're lucky enough that it starts, When you've got a well discharged battery like this keep the engine running on the car with the good battery while you've got the leads connected during this "waiting" period because, if the "good" car has a battery which is a little less than perfect you might find it'll discharge enough so you then can't start it - now you might have 2 cars you can't start!

Also, if you get the car with the flat battery started don't rev the engine, just let it idle. It's very tempting to give it a good "rev up" as soon as it fires but don't! There is less chance of doing damage to electronic components on either car if you don't rev it. Also don't immediately disconnect the leads (remember when you do to always take the negative lead off first - cuts down on the chances of a short circuit) let it idle for 5 to 10 minutes to allow both batteries to become more equal in state of charge then when you disconnect the leads neither car is going to get a "surprise" when the current regulator in the alternator suddenly sees it's got a flat battery to contend with and goes "ape" trying to comply, possibly frying a few electronic components in the process!

If you do need a clutch and your wee guy doesn't fancy doing it - which is what this situation sounds like to me as garages don't typically turn away relatively "simple" everyday tasks? If you trust him just ask him where you should go - he will know the other garages around your area and where you are likely to get a quality job done for a fair price. I'm afraid your clutch might well be an expensive one because it's almost certainly a dual mass flywheel. There are tools available to check Dual Mass Flywheel condition so a decision can be made whether to reuse or not. If you are going to keep the vehicle for at least several years after having a new clutch fitted, my opinion is that a new D/M flywheel should always be fitted. Expensive at the time but nothing like as expensive as having to take it all to pieces again maybe 18 months later if/when it fails - and they often do in my experience.

Regarding the battery confusion? there are broadly speaking 3 types used in most cars today. Older cars without Stop/Start can use a standard Lead Acid "wet" battery with lead plates and liquid sulphuric acid based electrolyte inside - nasty stuff! Cheapest to buy but won't live for long with the constant current demands of a modern S/S system. More likely you'll find an Enhanced Flooded Battery -EFB- on it. These are considerably more expensive but still have more than a passing similarity to the older "wet" batteries however they can cope with the constant discharge/charge cycling that S/S demands. Don't waste money putting a standard "wet" battery in a vehicle you are using the stop/start function in, it's likely to fail within the year! Lastly the "Gel" or "Absorbent Glass Mat" battery. actually two different constructions but both have the advantage of not containing liquid electrolyte. They are the most expensive by quite a long way but also the "Gold Standard" at present. A "wet" battery and an "EFB" can both usually be charged with a normal "smart" charger. The "AGM"/"Gel" you'll have to look at your charger's instructions to see if it can cope. My wee Tronic has to be set to the "snowflake" position I believe? Non of us have a car with an AGM battery so I'm not very well up on them.

Oh dear, another of my rambling posts! hope it helped you understand a bit though.

Kind regards
Jock
 
Thanks jock. , no you didn’t ramble you made it easier to understand so thanks again.

When I tried to jump start my car I’d used a Jeep Compass 2018, but I was told that it needed to be reved as last time it was left in idle and it didn’t charge the battery. The car was left on for over 30 minutes , so I checked the doblo and all the lights came on the dashboard which I thought it was a good sign, and then I waited for them to go of before starting her up, it made a clicking/ grinding noise and the smoke came off the negative lead which I had put on a the metal clasp that’s used to open and hold the bumper closed as it had no paint on it and had worked previously. At that point I went into panic mode ? I turned off the doblo and ran to the other car and turned that off, and at that point I quickly removed the leads ( if anyone had seen me I looked like a mad women, all I was short of doing is running around with my hands up in the air screaming aaaaaagh! ?? . ....


. if you don’t mind which battery would you recommend for my fiat doblo?
The bloke from the garage he said to me that to get the clutch he recommended doing the flywheel as well as it will guarantee it he said then if anything goes wrong then it’s covered and you can bring it back to the garage and they have to sort it as if you leave the flywheel they won’t guarantee the job, he told me to go to a bigger garage that can compete with the larger garages as he can’t with only been a little garage. The only reason I knew about the gel battery as the battery chargers I was looking at had agm /gel

Allison
 
Don't worry about that sense of panic Allison, we've all experienced it! Your description of trying to do that jump tells me that the negative connection you tried to make was not a good one and the heavy current trying to flow when you attempted to use the starter motor resulted in heat due to the high resistance of that poor connection. There's potentially enough power in a battery to start melting stuff if you have poor connections, but don't be afraid of it just choose your connecting point carefully and give the clamp a good wiggle so it bites through any surface imperfections/corrosion to the solid metal underneath. So, lets assume your red lead is going positive on the good battery to positive on the "flat" battery and your black lead is going from the negative on the good battery to? where? The safe option has never been to go for the negative battery terminal because on older "wet" batteries there's often combustible gasses around and a spark can literally cause a battery explosion. More modern batteries are "sealed" (they have no removable plugs and can't be topped up - often called "maintenance free") so a bit safer in this respect but still better not to. Then they started doing stop/start which have a sensor on the negative terminal - usually a wee black plastic thingy attached to the negative clamp which you can see - and you mustn't connect to the negative terminal on this type for both jumping and/or charging because there's a real risk this wee sensor will either become "confused" or damaged.

So you need a robust place to make the connection and, for years, the engine block/cylinder head castings have been recommended. Pretty much any part of the main metal parts of the engine will do but I wouldn't choose the alternator casing "just in case". Must emphasize all 4 of the the jump clamp connections must be good so give them all a bit of a wiggle when placing them so they can get a real "hold". Connecting to metal parts of the body is more "iffy" sometimes you'll get a good connection, sometimes not.

The clicking grinding noise was the result of not enough electric current getting through that poor connection so the main starter solenoid was jumping in and out (that would be the clicking) and maybe just enough electricity was getting through to begin to turn the starter very slowly (probably the grinding noise). By now so much current was trying to pass through the poor negative connection that it heated up and started smoking. Turning everything off and removing the leads was a very sensible thing to do - bear in mind for the future, just in case it happens again, it's been smoking because it got very hot! Take care because you might burn your hand!

As to which battery? Take a look at the existing battery and see what's written on it's label. Has it got EFB? If your's is a start/stop it's very likely that it's going to be an EFB. Both my Ibiza and my Boy's Punto have these and it's very plain to see the lettering on the top. Our Panda is not stop/start and EFB is nowhere to be seen on it's battery so that'll just be a standard sealed wet battery if we ever need one - nice and cheap! If you really want to splash the cash then you can look at AGM or Gel types but we just replaced my boy's battery in his Punto and went for an EFB like the one that was already in it. There's also the actual battery specification to consider 12 volts of course but also it's maximum cranking amperage which it can safely put out and it's capacity which is measured in Ampere Hours (AH) You'll probably see this on the label on the top of the battery and will look something like : 12v 65AH 550CCA - the CCA stands for Cold Cranking Amps and is an indication of how powerful the battery is. Don't worry too much about any of this though because when you go to buy the battery the supplier will ask for the registration number of the vehicle, look it up on his computer and tell you if he can do one or not. Most importantly the new battery must fit the battery tray and it's holding down clamps. Also you don't want one that's significantly less powerful then the original. The one we bought for the Punto had an AH rating of 60AH against 64AH of the original but it's CCA was around 650 compared to the original one's 450. I'm very happy with that and it's working very well.

I think the advice your garage man gave you about fitting a new DM flywheel speaks volumes and it would be my advice too. If your wee man doesn't seem keen to do it try searching locally for a clutch specialist. There are several here in Edinburgh and I'll bet there are some in a place like Coventry with it's historical connections to the car industry. These places are really set up for it and can do them in surprisingly quick times because they often don't do much else so they get really good at it. There are specialist vehicles I wouldn't trust them with but most Fiats are pretty straight forward and shouldn't cause them any problems.

Good luck and good night
regards
Jock
 
Thanks again jock once again you’ve been brilliant at explaining the whole thing. At least I did the right thing in unplugging everything. ? the jeep was stop/start so think i was lucky.
There’s a place called pit stop which will install for free when you buy a battery,so hopefully I’ll do that at some point. Thanks for the advice on going to a clutch specialist will definitely do that.

I’m not as scared as I was when I started this post so thanks again and to everyone else offering me support to a novice.
 
fiat doblo newbie

Regarding the battery, what make model is the current one ? Also measure the battery tray size without the old battery in it, as you will usually find you can fit a larger battery than stated by the manufacture which will then give you a bit more power to help start the car. I usually order mine via Tayna Batteries: https://www.tayna.co.uk/

I work in Coventry so if you ever need any diagnostics doing just give me a nudge as I have MES (MultiEcuScan) and can connect it up for you and read any faults (once Covid allows). Means you can be pre-armed with info before going to a mechanic as regards a possible fault.
 
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Thanks again jock once again you’ve been brilliant at explaining the whole thing. At least I did the right thing in unplugging everything. ? the jeep was stop/start so think i was lucky.
There’s a place called pit stop which will install for free when you buy a battery,so hopefully I’ll do that at some point. Thanks for the advice on going to a clutch specialist will definitely do that.

I’m not as scared as I was when I started this post so thanks again and to everyone else offering me support to a novice.
You're very welcome Allison. After all, if you think about it, we were all novices at the beginning! Just take things slow and steady and if there's something you're not sure about stop, think about it and ask us if you like. Looks like there's someone who can help in your area too - Zeewolf - especially as he has MES (Multiecuscan) https://www.gendan.co.uk/product_FESPKG.html which is probably the best electronics diagnostic package for our cars and often better than the average small garage which will probably have generic equipment so can sometimes miss-diagnose problems.

Do please let us know how you get on when you buy the new battery.
Kind regards
Jock
 
I just Googled for the Pitstop place you mention: https://www.autopitstop.co.uk/ What an interesting looking place. I'm going to go back and have a good look through their website just out of interest. Looks like you might have found a useful supplier there. It reminds me somewhat of a small auto shop in Leith Walk called Pilrig Motors: https://citikey.uk/display/pilrig-motors-S0497 who are not perhaps as big but do very similar business and is family run by 3 very helpful brothers. They also have a workshop round in the lane behind the shop where they work on customers cars. Good people.
 
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