Technical Help! No vacuum to the turbo actuator

[multiplied]

well i put everything back together yesterday and fired her up, plenty of smoke , which was to be expected from the additives used in fuel filter.
the smoke cleared and i took car out for a run, pulled well & actualy hit 4000 revs & 80mph before...warning noise & engine light on again!!!.
nightmare!!.
one thing i noticed, and maybe a pointer in the right diagnostic, is revving the car stationary no management light comes on at all, even 4000 revs plus, engine sounds great & smooth, but always stutters at around 3000 revs, like starved of fuel or air , feels more like an older car that needs carburreter cleaning.
has anyone any idea?
i am going tpo create a new post, have to nail this.
we desperately need the car

 

[millymoon]

Many thanks for clarifyig Matt

 

[ashley115]

Mine does exactly the same and has done for over 20k miles! Keeps you driving economically! I cant wait for the answer!

 

[millymoon]

Hi Multiplied. Apologies I didn't see your posting until just now. How frustrating!!:bang: What a complete pain! I still have my fingers crossed for you... Have finally had confirmation that my turbo IS the correct one for my car so am literally back to square one My partner has his friend in Slovakia helping us now! the problem is translating Fiat parts from English into Slovak lol!
Now that you've cleaned your turbo our problem is sounding similar again although I still can't get the car into high revs. Hopefully the friend can come up with some new solutions - worth a try anyway!! Will keep you posted

 

[multiplied]

hi millymoon,
decided to get back on trying to fix car. just bon the off chance i fitted a new egr valve (previous was a second hand one) , still same fault.
i am getting closer though....
from what i understand...
there is permanent vacuum to smaller black vac pipe to overboost valve (with engine running-can anyone confirm this?)
...then the other larger red vac pipe running to turbo actuator sucks open actuator to release turbo pressure/operate variable vanes.

i have NO vacuum to overboost valve in the first place via small black tubing, none at all , this tubing runs from overboost valve to behind engine, near an electrical connector & seems intact (if i blow down it, it doesnt leak, so assume pipe intact).
my turbo actuator doesnt move at all visibly while revving engine (it wouldnt without vacuum getting to it, but just to confirm)
if i use a syringe on end or red tube, i can clearly see actuator move
SO MY PROBLEM IS NO VACUUM IN THE FIRST PLACE EVEN GETTING TO OVERBOOST VALVE.
i have perfect brakes, so i know the car is producing vaccum as it should.

someone on here must have some ideas? please help!

 

[multiplied]

FIXED!!!!
just driven it hard on 20 mile motorway run , car was flying, no limp mode,
no engine management light, had her up to 4000+ rpm.
after hundreds of pounds on new parts..egr,map senso dr, maf sensor, overboost valve.... a £1.49p part from halfords sorted it.
i worked out that the overboost valve has an incoming vacuum pipe with
permanent suction ALWAYS with car running, the overboost valve simply turns the vacuum off & on like a tap with instructions from ECU taken from readings from the map sensor, this in turn can leave vacuum running through the overboost valve to the turbo actuator, thus moving the variable vanes, or cut off the vacuum thus letting the actuator spring back up & close the vanes.
i had no vacuum at all to overboost valve, so there lay my fault, which in turn gave me 8 months of bloody limp mode & even foxed the garage who
plumped for a turbo vane problem... not so.
i realised all vacuum comes from one place- the chamber at end of camshaft (i have perfect brakes, so i new vacuum was being achieved).
from the vacuum chamber at end of camshaft is one larger hose running directly to brake servo with just one "tee" in it that clearly is the source of vacuum for anything else on the car that requires vacuum.
now for some reason i wasnt getting vacuum to the small black tube that should provide constant vacuum to the overboost valve. i traced this pipe to back of engine where approx 4 of these pipes go into a black plastic box, very hard to access (just see it from underneath car on ramps with torch).
all pipes looked sound & blowing down my overboost vac pipe i felt instant resistance & no leaks.
my guess is it had become blocked with some crap from somewhere.
i went out & bought a windscreen washer tube "tee connector" ,removed the pipe off the larger vac pipe at the tee, used a small piece of silicone hose pushed onto the original tee, pushed on my new tee, then the original pipe i took off onto one side and a new length of silicone hose on the other and routed to overboost valve.
instantly with engine started i saw turbo actuator rod move.
took out for good run on m-way- perfect.
i have my vacuum from different location, but its still protected & governed by both map sensor /overboost valve & works a treat!.

conclusion- given complete bum steer by lazy garage who told me blatant lies (said i had vacuum to actuator, when clearly i had not!), obviously they never even looked.
only way is to do it yourself if you can.
anyone with overboost/limp mode, should pull off small black pipe from overboost valve and with engine running check for suction prior to spending ££££££ on spare parts

 

[millymoon]

WOW! FANTASTIC!!:slayer: That's BRILLIANT NEWS!! I've just been saying that I need to get back to resolving the car issue. We've previously used a gauge to check vacuum to the actuator, we know we have it to the actuator but the actuator doesn't actually move! :bang: You've given me real hope now! :worship:I'm really pleased you've sorted your problem. Am gonna try to do exactly the same as you now, so fingers crossed again!

 

[multiplied]

hi, it may well solve your problem, easy way to check is simply pull off the small black vac tube from overboost valve and turn on engine, you should have noticable suction (enough to leave a small ring mark on your finger for a moment or two). if you have suction here, disconnect the larger red hose from overboost valve (one that goes down to turbo) and push the smaller one into the red one- you should now see turbo actuator rod move.
if rod does not move- there is your problem, if no vacuum from small black tube (like i had), then there is your problem, simply buy a £1.49 small hose tee from halfords and using some silicone hose take vacuum directly from
the tee already in the large vac hose going to brake servo and route this to overboost valve.
please update me

 

[widemouthfrog]

Good to hear that you've got it fixed. This must be one of the longest troubleshooting threads on the Multipla forum!

As I posted earlier in this thread, I replaced the MAP sensor trying to cure the same fault on my car. The cure turned out to be nothing more than a replacement 2" piece of rubber hose that the black vacuum line pushes in to. Many folks here have spent a small fortune on parts trying to find a fix when the remedy actually costs no more than a couple of quid.

If you get time, a couple of photos of what you did may help others with similar symptoms in future.

 

[matt8772]

hi, it may well solve your problem, easy way to check is simply pull off the small black vac tube from overboost valve and turn on engine, you should have noticable suction (enough to leave a small ring mark on your finger for a moment or two). if you have suction here, disconnect the larger red hose from overboost valve (one that goes down to turbo) and push the smaller one into the red one- you should now see turbo actuator rod move.
if rod does not move- there is your problem, if no vacuum from small black tube (like i had), then there is your problem, simply buy a £1.49 small hose tee from halfords and using some silicone hose take vacuum directly from
the tee already in the large vac hose going to brake servo and route this to overboost valve.
please update me

that was all checked fairly early on i think fella. possibly on a different thread too.

can't believe your garage didnt check for vacuum to your overboost valve though?!?!

 

[multiplied]

hi, i will take a couple of picks & post them on here.
drove car today, awesome, really is flying now, very smooth & fast, not having the engine management light come on at 3000 revs & the beep beep noise is amazing

 

[millymoon]

Really fantastic news! Still haven't had a chance to get back to the car yet but certainly hope to this week. Pics would be great! It just shows how you cannot rely on garages. I've known all along there was no vacuum to the actuator but no-one has come up with a cheap solution until now. Am off to Halfords tomorrow so fingers well and truly crossed!

 

[multiplied]

ok here is a pic of the new tee i put in the vac hose at same point there is an existing (the only tee).
you cant see writing on pic very well, so as follows:

A: vac pipe from end of camshaft going to brake servo.

B: existing tee

C: short length of tube to accomodate new tee

D: new tee

E: pipe taken from existing tee & reconnected here.

F: new silicone hose to overboost valve

nb the "blocked" not working length of hose removed from overboost valve, i sealed end with small screw & electrical tape- just incase it ever decided to work again & i may lose some vacuum if not sealed.

hope this helps someone else

 

[widemouthfrog]

Just to give people their bearings when they look at your picture, can you tell us where the piccy is taken from and what you're looking towards? What's the iron bracket/flange at the very bottom of the picture?

Cheers!

 

[multiplied]

good point widemouthfrog, here is pic showing location of modification, you can see new red silicone pipes on right hand of pic, with engine cover off, just to right of egr valve, the straight red pipe going into new tee piece, curved one to overboost valve.
for those who may not know the wired connector to left hand side of egr valve is the map sensor.
hope this clarifies things.
im so chuffed with the car now, running better than it ever has since i got it

 

[multiplied]

millymoon, as long as your turbo actuator has not seized, im positive this will fix your car, so please let me know how you get on.

i think the fault occurs when the existing red tube from overboost valve to turbo actuator becomes chaffed and spilit or hole in it, as there is constant vacuum, like a small hoover it is going to suck any crap into the tubing and block it at the smallest point- being the smaller diameter black tubing. a vac test on the tubing shows no leaks (as its now blocked), so naturaly you assume ok when it isnt.

 

[millymoon]

Hiya, have been to Halfords and bought my tee. Have bought some additional red hose so pretty much ready to go. I really hope my actuator hasn't seized! When I bought the turbo it had a 3 month warranty but that has long gone now! Propbably won't be able to spend any time on the car until Friday but I'm all ready to go. Thanks for posting your pics. Have printed them off, boyfriend thinks he knows exactly what he needs to do now. It's a shame the ex isn't down for a few weeks as he's usually a good source too. Oh well, will keep you informed..... Really do appreciate your help with all this

 

[millymoon]

AAARRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!! Finally got a chance to look at the car properly yesterday and discovered that the hose to the overboost valve has been fitted the wrong way round all this time!!! What was that previously about crap mechanics??? I don't have a code reader so cannot clear the code to see if this has fixed the problem so will have to wait until tomorrow. However i am still wrangling with the issue of possibly having the wrong MAP sensor now. I currently have 46811235 fitted which is supposed to be for 186AXB1A - which google states is my car. However, previously I had 46468682 which is for 186AXE1A. However, entering my VIN number into the forum parts page, it states it should be 46468682 :bang: Can anyone advise what would be the consequences if the wrong MAP sensor was fitted. If we cleared the code, would another one show up due to the wrong MAP sensor being fitted?? Any help gratefully received.

Multiplied, thank you so much for your help with all of this...

 

[multiplied]

hi millymoon, an easy way to check if vacuum getting to actuator is simply take both tubes off overboost valve & insert one tube into the other, you should now see actuator move

 

[millymoon]

Hiya, by correcting the hose to the overboost valve we managed to get the actuator to move.. yay!! BUT!! once we had the codes cleared (at an extotionate cost of £30!!!) 5 new codes appeared :bang: P0235 Boost pressure valve. P0110 Intake Air temperature sensor circuit. P0101 Air mass sensor circuit. P0236 Overboost valve circuit and P0201 Injector Cylinder Circuit.All of these things were replaced for new when I bought the car! Nightmare please HELP!!!!