Technical Grease nipples
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Grease nipples
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What king pins on a 124?
The drawing explanations 3 and 4 are wrong. In the image below the spindle bolt is actually a kingpin. The main difference between a kingpin setup and upper and lower swivels is that the kingpin only allow one degree of movement and that is in the left/right turning axis. Swivels allow for up/down and turning. Kingpins are found on rigid axles whereas ball joint swivels are found in independent suspension setups.
The top and bottom swivels on the suspension wishbones when working on Ladas had grease nipples in place of those small bolts you can see on the the swivels at number 3 in the diagram.
The inner ends are rubber bushes so not applicable although on many older vehicle they did have grease nipples and bronze bushes there, even commercials like Bedford Midi I seem to recall.
The only danger was over exuberant greasing pushed out the dust covers resulting in dirt getting in so a negative effect.
As an apprentice in late 60s we greased everything so often 10 or more nipples on many vehicles, following that we would spray the rear leaf springs with the old engine oil and what was left over the girls in the riding stable would use for the horse hooves apparently.
The inner ends are rubber bushes so not applicable although on many older vehicle they did have grease nipples and bronze bushes there, even commercials like Bedford Midi I seem to recall.
The only danger was over exuberant greasing pushed out the dust covers resulting in dirt getting in so a negative effect.
As an apprentice in late 60s we greased everything so often 10 or more nipples on many vehicles, following that we would spray the rear leaf springs with the old engine oil and what was left over the girls in the riding stable would use for the horse hooves apparently.
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In conclusion there are no grease nipples or kingpins on 124 spiders, they are replaceable ball joints at the top and botyon of the outer upright
What I was saying is that the top and bottom swivels/suspension joints have a blank /bolt in them that looks similar to where the same joints on Ladas had grease nipples, so if wanted OP could fit greasers to them.
Sorry, I don't know your age or persuasion but to deny printed description as some form of deniable wokeness is pathetic.
I am asking a simple question based on printed matter and if you can't offer a sensible or technical support, please go away and annoy someone else because I am too long in the tooth to waste my time on ineptness
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Charmed
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I shall choose to offer no more help.
@bugsymike - did you have in your workshop any of the Lubrication Charts supplied by Castrol Lubricants for the different car models that showed the location of each grease point and which grease should be used, also showed the type of oils to be used in the engine, gearbox, axle etc. All were Castrol products, of course!---------------------------------------------------------
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As an apprentice in late 60s we greased everything so often 10 or more nipples on many vehicles, following that we would spray the rear leaf springs with the old engine oil and what was left over the girls in the riding stable would use for the horse hooves apparently.
Ah, the 'good old days'. Sigh.
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When I first started the thread I had the page open in the Haynes manual so I just used their description, maybe they need telling?
I do know only too well what kingpins are as for around 25 years I running service vans with beam axles and how important it was to keep them lubricated.
No supplied charts I'm afraid but the main go to workshop grease was Castrol LM. I'm a tad lost with all these coloured and synthetic greases
We seem to have gone well off tack with the initial question, is their any benefits of drilling, tapping and greasing the "swivels"
OK. To just be clear your first post had no picture attached which got timmycm850 wondering. There was no ill feeling just puzzlement. I then tried to clarify after your posted the picture.
I suspect that Haynes published those drawings with kingpin descriptive labels because back in the 124 days kingpin setups were far more common compared to cars / Fiats with fully independent front suspension and was trying to bridge the technology gap with a possibly more understood equivalent front steering articulation method.
So we now all understand exactly what you are looking for wrt installing grease nipples.
I used to have the owners manual for the old UK Austin 7 and it had a larger fold out coloured Castrol lubrication chart showing all the lubrication points and the product to be used. Interestingly back in those days many more people did their own car maintenance which is why there were simple detailed lubrication charts.
Op Are you asking about greasing the items number 3 in your picture?(incorrectly described as king pin ball joints)
the item number 4 is solidly fixed via tapers to numbers 3. When steering the balls rotate in their greased sockets.
In my opinion Timmy850cm did nothing at all to deserve your responce post12.
the item number 4 is solidly fixed via tapers to numbers 3. When steering the balls rotate in their greased sockets.
In my opinion Timmy850cm did nothing at all to deserve your responce post12.
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Aye, Castrol were "King" back then, although "young pretenders", like Duckhams with their "attractive" green coloured product were starting to whittle away at their dominance.
And grease nipples, oh yes, millions of them all over the place. Blowing out the blanking plugs was an easy thing to do, often exacerbated when, for instance, a king pin had seen no grease for ages and you were trying to force grease through a semi seized assembly. It was one of the things which "Faster Fit" type workshops were quite poor at because they handled so many different makes and models that they never got the chance to learn where they all were on certain models. For instance, very few had a requirement to grease the steering rack but, if I remember correctly, the Triumph 2000 had a nipple on the pinion shaft of the steering rack? which was often missed and when sealed U/Js became the norm very few with nipples in the prop shaft ever saw the business end of a grease gun. An inexperienced worker always had the potential to do a lot of unintentional damage which is a pity as it was often an apprentice who was in the lube bay! I well remember an apprentice who, for two days, put gearbox oil into every engine he was doing oil changes on! Our lube bay was a separate bay with pneumatically driven dispensers working from large drums of oil so all he was handling was the delivery guns, which were not labelled as there was just one for engine oil, one for gearboxes and one for axles. We all knew which were which but, obviously he either forgot or was not properly told. We found out because at least 3 customers complained of poor starting with possibly failing batteries. In fact it was because the oil was so thick the poor starter motors could hardly turn the engines over fast enough for them to start. Very red faces all round for us and flowers and boxes of fancy chocolates for our customers. Luckily we got away with it and didn't loose any customers.
I think it was a pity they did away with greaseable components as, if maintained correctly, they had the potential to last the life of the vehicle. However you had to remember to grease them little and often - Moly grease, where appropriate, was a big improvement. Of course today the labour cost would be "silly" so probably trading this off against the expense of occasionally needing a ball joint or rubber bush replaced has been the right way to go.
I have no experience of how the Fiat 124 steering should feel and every single thing is new but I class the steering as heavy. The swivels, track rod ends, idler are all around 5 years old although the car has been stood. I have put on a new steering box and bearings into the column tube. I'm just trying to get some improvement.
All I can dig up in that quarter these days is this.
Attachments
My only regular experience was with Russian Lada (124 clones) and the steering geometry from the factory was miles out and very heavy, so we spent many hours on pre delivery inspections resetting castor /camber etc. We used to joke you could tell a female Lada owner as they had muscles like a Russian Shot Putter.
I can't recall how much driving around you have been able to do , but can you see any signs of heavy tyre wear/scrubbing etc. ?
With the Ladas if geometry wasn't corrected by the shims on the inner wishbone mounts then illegal tyres at 600miles was not unknown from brand new.
With the Ladas if geometry wasn't corrected by the shims on the inner wishbone mounts then illegal tyres at 600miles was not unknown from brand new.