General Ghost Barchettas

[Wiltshire Chris]

New member @AramisTG was curious as to why his, new to him, B wasn't being found in ePer. Concerned that there was a problem in openPer I dug into it and also checked official v84 ePer. Sure enough, no record of his VIN (I've seen a photo of his VIN plate - he's definitely not fibbing!). Being both bored and in possession of the underlying data I thought I'd scan to see how many gaps we have in the records of Bs working on the assumption that the VIN numbers would be used sequentially. Sure enough, they mostly go up in sequence with the odd entry missing but then we get a run between numbers 57426 and 57513 which only has three vehicles in it meaning that there are a possible 85 'ghost cars'. Without giving his VIN away the new member's car is one of these. Build dates for the vehicles close to this range are in July 2004.

I thought I'd look at production by date just to see if there was anything interesting to note:

There's an obvious gap in production dates after July which would relate to the annual factory closure in August before production picks up again in late October.

This may not be news to some but I thought I'd post it as a record of the investigation

 

[s130]

I'm wondering if the gaps are for cars produced for Foreign / Non EU markets. @AramisTG / OP dis say that his car was originally came from Japan as an import.

If we take the 500X as an example then the US VIN numbers and spares numbers are completely different to the UK/EU ones.

If Japan (or any other country) has or had their own parts and spares distribution then all the labels & packaging will most likely be in in Japanese / Kanji. Indeed @AramisTG / OP has said all his vehicle labels are in Japanese.

If I look at ePER for the Barchetta Labels then ePER 84 only has the languages English, French. Italian and German (that I can see).

This then begs the question what the Dutch/Netherlands cars have? Dutch labels or the more generic four language labels?

 

[Wiltshire Chris]

That's an interesting thought and makes a lot of sense. I can't find it right now but I corresponded with another forum member about missing South American VINs and information in ePer so that probably backs up your point.
Looking at the ePer MVS table there are four models that are probably, given the name, for the Japanese market:

I then had a look at the production by year for the Japanese B's and we see that there are none recorded after 2002. Correlation may not be causation but wasn't that the year production switched from Maggiore to FIAT themselves?

 

[AramisTG]

I'm wondering if the gaps are for cars produced for Foreign / Non EU markets. @AramisTG / OP dis say that his car was originally came from Japan as an import.
<Snip>
If Japan (or any other country) has or had their own parts and spares distribution then all the labels & packaging will most likely be in in Japanese / Kanji. Indeed @AramisTG / OP has said all his vehicle labels are in Japanese.

I'm not sure if this will help the ghost car situation, or just make it more confusing.

Yes, most of my engine compartment labels are in Japanese/Kanji. But not all!

See below for examples:

Front Radiator Labels:

Passenger Side Coolant Label:

Driver Side Shock Tower Label:

Then we get this one, which is in the 4 languages (Firewall AC Label) ... ??

I appreciate that you guys love a good puzzle and are interested enough to respond and offer insight! I'd love to get to the bottom of it eventually.

Scott, Niagara, Canada.

 

[AramisTG]

I then had a look at the production by year for the Japanese B's and we see that there are none recorded after 2002. Correlation may not be causation but wasn't that the year production switched from Maggiore to FIAT themselves?

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. My B is a 2006 by Canadian Registration, so I assume a 2005/4 by production before import.

Yes, it came through Japan, a major hub for importing vehicles to Vancouver BC, Canada. But may not have been produced in Japan, although my engine labels say otherwise ...

I just noticed on the Coolant label that there is English underneath it. Maybe Japanese labels were just put overtop when it hit Japan for export?

I'll have a better look at the other labels tomorrow.

Still just as confused as you are,
Scott

 

[Wiltshire Chris]

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. My B is a 2006 by Canadian Registration, so I assume a 2005/4 by production before import.

I wasn't clear. I was speculating that maybe when production moved from Maggiore to Fiat they did their record keeping differently. In the end all this data was dependent on someone keying things into a system correctly so we could be building our house on the sand! I just thought it curious that there are no VINs for the Japanese model codes after 2002. It's maybe that they were just recorded as something else. It'd be interesting to have the VIN of a post 2002, non-ghost, Japanese barchetta to see what code it got.

I appreciate that you guys love a good puzzle and are interested enough to respond and offer insight! I'd love to get to the bottom of it eventually.

I find the puzzles interesting as the 'funnies' can help me understand the data better.

The Barchetta Lexikon doesn't have a lot on the Japanese Bs but it does talk about two major differences, the side indicator repeaters and the instrument panel having to have a light for the catalytic temperature warning. https://v4.barchetta-lexikon.de/index.php/lexikon/j/japan

There is a code within ePer to designate parts for the Japanese market, you'll see 'AJ' against them in the parts lists. There are 47 parts spread across a few drawings and they're mostly to do with the side indicator repeaters, temperature warning and a different number plate holder. The full table is at the end of this post.

One interesting point out of that is your B has the 'normal' looking indicator repeaters rather than what look like, according to ePer, rectangular Japanese ones. The notes for that part show (modification 10245) on diagram https://eper.fiatforum.com/en/Drawings/Detail/F/F/BAR/PK/555/1/0/2/SubSubGroup show that it stopped being fitted on 15/09/2004 and switched to the standard round ones. That possibly gives your car a post 15/9/2004 production date.

I suppose it could be that it wasn't a Japanese spec vehicle at all but was just exported through Japan. So many mysteries. The main thing is you have what looks like a really nice B with the added cachet of 'ghost' status

Table	Drawing	Part Count	Link
10200/00	1	2	10200/00 - FUEL TANK FIAT BARCHETTA (1995-2004) eper.fiatforum.com
10200/01	1	1	10200/01 - FUEL TANK FIAT BARCHETTA (1995-2004) eper.fiatforum.com
10258/00	1	8	10258/00 - EXHAUST PIPE FIAT BARCHETTA (1995-2004) eper.fiatforum.com
55401/00	1	6	55401/00 - OUTER LIGHTING FIAT BARCHETTA (1995-2004) eper.fiatforum.com
55501/00	3	3	55501/00 - SIGNALLING DEVICES FIAT BARCHETTA (1995-2004) eper.fiatforum.com
55510/00	1	5	55510/00 - OPERATION INDICATORS FIAT BARCHETTA (1995-2004) eper.fiatforum.com
55510/01	1	2	55510/01 - OPERATION INDICATORS FIAT BARCHETTA (1995-2004) eper.fiatforum.com
55510/02	1	2	55510/02 - OPERATION INDICATORS FIAT BARCHETTA (1995-2004) eper.fiatforum.com
55523/00	1	3	55523/00 - CABLE HARNESS (FRONT) FIAT BARCHETTA (1995-2004) eper.fiatforum.com
55523/01	1	3	55523/01 - CABLE HARNESS (FRONT) FIAT BARCHETTA (1995-2004) eper.fiatforum.com
55525/00	1	1	55525/00 - CABLE HARNESS (REAR SEAT) FIAT BARCHETTA (1995-2004) eper.fiatforum.com
55525/01	1	1	55525/01 - CABLE HARNESS (REAR SEAT) FIAT BARCHETTA (1995-2004) eper.fiatforum.com
55526/00	1	1	55526/00 - ADDITIONAL CABLES ASSEMBLAGE FIAT BARCHETTA (1995-2004) eper.fiatforum.com
70001/00	1	1	70001/00 - WORKED BODY FIAT BARCHETTA (1995-2004) eper.fiatforum.com
70002/00	2	3	70002/00 - BODYSHELL,STRUCTURE FIAT BARCHETTA (1995-2004) eper.fiatforum.com
70732/00	1	5	70732/00 - OUTER ACCESSORIES FIAT BARCHETTA (1995-2004) eper.fiatforum.com

 

[s130]

Yes, it came through Japan, a major hub for importing vehicles to Vancouver BC, Canada. But may not have been produced in Japan, although my engine labels say otherwise ...

To my knowledge Barchettas were all manufactured/produced in Italy.

It is/was quite common for the country importing facility (Bristol docks in the case of many Fiats in the UK) to personalise the arriving vehicles to local country specifications.

On my Coupe 20V the Meta Alarm system was installed at the docks.

Our Strada 130TC was manufactured with the driver/passenger window wind deflectors but they were removed at some point (docks?) prior to arriving at the dealer. You can still to this day see the paint marks where the lower front corners pressed into the then fairly fresh paint.

 

[Wiltshire Chris]

It is/was quite common for the country importing facility (Bristol docks in the case of many Fiats in the UK) to personalise the arriving vehicles to local country specifications.

On my Coupe 20V the Meta Alarm system was installed at the docks.

I didn't know that. I grew up on the East coast and my dad worked in Customs & Excise at Felixstowe port. I remember the acres and acres of Volvos parked near the docks and never realised that they could be being personalised there.

 

[AramisTG]

It is/was quite common for the country importing facility (Bristol docks in the case of many Fiats in the UK) to personalise the arriving vehicles to local country specifications.

I can, in fact, confirm that Japanese/Kanji labels were placed over the original 4 language warning labels. I suspect you are correct that when the car hit the docks in Japan for export, it got 'converted' to local standards.

See below:

I'll have to get my heat gun out to warm the labels up and carefully remove them. I'd like the original labels that I can read, but also want to reattach the Japanese labels beside them. for posterity sake (a can of spray adhesive should suffice for re-attachment).

Scott

 

[AramisTG]

<snip>

Driver Side Shock Tower Label:
View attachment 440178

Completely unrelated, but fun none the less. Original above then, you have to love Google Translate and it's Camera function:

Anyone read Kanji to confirm ore refute the Google translation?

Scott