Technical Gearbox oil question again!!!

[purple haze]

Hi all...

Went to my local motor factors to see if they had any GL3..long shot i know...
They checked it out and showed me that Comma oils recomend HD 40 diesel oil!!??
Anyone else come across this???

Cheers...kev

 

[nitro_warrior]

I have heard of engine oil being recomended, but only in random web comments. As far as i'm aware it doesn't contain the sulpher based EP additives that are harmful to the yellow metals. My only concern is it could be a little thin, though that's probably preferable to GL5.
Not sure why the diesel engine oil would be recomended though I think it has more detergents in it for cleaning away carbon deposits. (needs citation!)

 

[purple haze]

I have heard of engine oil being recomended, but only in random web comments. As far as i'm aware it doesn't contain the sulpher based EP additives that are harmful to the yellow metals. My only concern is it could be a little thin, though that's probably preferable to GL5.
Not sure why the diesel engine oil would be recomended though I think it has more detergents in it for cleaning away carbon deposits. (needs citation!)

Thanks as ever NW....i've been on the PR web site and GL3 90 miller is £32 for 5ltrs which includes postage so will be going down that route...

Just was interested to see what you thought seeing as it was in "Black and white" in the comma oils book???

kev

 

[Chas Uno]

If it's any help, when I went to buy some gearbox oil for my 70SX Uno from my local motorfactors they looked it up and also recommended HD40 diesel oil. I've been running that in my Uno's gearbox since last summer with no adverse affects - *touch wood*!

Gearbox oils and engine oils use different gradings for the similar oil specs, so the sort of oil required for the FIRE type gearbox is probably similar to engine oil. Even more so as older FIRE gearboxes don't use EP oils. I know on my 1986 FIRE engined Unos I've always used 15w/ 40 oil for the gearboxes, as advised by Mr. Haynes, and have taken both of those Unos over 100K miles

 

[purple haze]

Ahhhhh...glad i asked the question....thanks uno45.....the HD 40 is alot cheaper..although a gearbox rebuild is not!!!.
Still i like what your saying so may consider this unless someone else wants to chip in with a "OMG DON'T DO IT" comment...

kev

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

OMG don't do it!

:stupid::spam:

 

[purple haze]

Think im going to go for it if uno45"s been ok and its recommended by Comma...Plus changing 5 lots of Panda's works out at £60 as opposed to £160!!!...anyone else want to comment???

kev

 

[nitro_warrior]

Ahhhhh...glad i asked the question....thanks uno45.....the HD 40 is alot cheaper..although a gearbox rebuild is not!!!.
Still i like what your saying so may consider this unless someone else wants to chip in with a "OMG DON'T DO IT" comment...

kev

I'm glad you asked too! Whilst I had heard about engine oil I didn't want to give it a shot without hearing about others who had already done so.

Any idea why diesel engine oil is recomended over petrol engine oil?

 

[purple haze]

I'm glad you asked too! Whilst I had heard about engine oil I didn't want to give it a shot without hearing about others who had already done so.

Any idea why diesel engine oil is recomended over petrol engine oil?

If you remember "crashtest" had his gearbox rebuilt and the people that did it will only guarantee it if he uses 20/50 engine oil!!!..still does not answer your question i know...

kev

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Any idea why diesel engine oil is recomended over petrol engine oil?

Petrol and Diesel engine oil of the same grade are the same thing. No additaves are different, none can remove carb deposits. The only thing that can do that is regular oil changes.

The only reason why some oils are marked Petrol or Diesel is so that the numpties out there who have no idea what oil their car takes put something roughly of the correct grade in, and make then phycoligically happier also

 

[Chas Uno]

Petrol and Diesel engine oil of the same grade are the same thing. No additaves are different, none can remove carb deposits. The only thing that can do that is regular oil changes.

The only reason why some oils are marked Petrol or Diesel is so that the numpties out there who have no idea what oil their car takes put something roughly of the correct grade in, and make then phycoligically happier also

What you've written above is not true according to this Jon:

"Can I use diesel engine oil in my petrol engine?
This is an awkward question to answer. Diesel engines run much higher compression ratios than petrol engines and they run a lot hotter, so the oil is formulated to deal with this. Plus they produce a lot more dirt in terms of combustion by-products. Diesel-rated oils typically have more detergents in them to deal with this (see Using Diesel oil for flushing above). It's not unheard of for diesel oils to clean a petrol engine so well that it loses compression. Diesel-rated oils also have an anti-foaming agent in them which is unique to diesel engines, and not needed in petrol engines."

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

What you've written above is not true according to this Jon:

"Can I use diesel engine oil in my petrol engine?
This is an awkward question to answer. Diesel engines run much higher compression ratios than petrol engines and they run a lot hotter, so the oil is formulated to deal with this. Plus they produce a lot more dirt in terms of combustion by-products. Diesel-rated oils typically have more detergents in them to deal with this (see Using Diesel oil for flushing above). It's not unheard of for diesel oils to clean a petrol engine so well that it loses compression. Diesel-rated oils also have an anti-foaming agent in them which is unique to diesel engines, and not needed in petrol engines."

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

Hmmm, I might be wrong then. I'll check with the techi guys at college when I get back.

But the whole description of what they recon oil is for seems wrong there. Most waist products and carbon go out of the exhaust.

Jon.

 

[purple haze]

Still giving it a go...£100 saved!!!!!...thats another Panda...

Seriously though...its working for Uno45......

kev

 

[Bougainvillea Rosso]

Kev,

Not sure which site you were looking at for the miller's oil but it is less than £20 for 5 litres here: http://www.performance-oils.co.uk/acatalog/Millers.html

"Edit": Sorry, 'including postage'. Speed reading... I took the opportunity to add some engine oil to my order to cushion the delivery charges a bit!

 

[Chas Uno]

Hmmm, I might be wrong then. I'll check with the techi guys at college when I get back.

But the whole description of what they recon oil is for seems wrong there. Most waist products and carbon go out of the exhaust.

Jon.

And why do you think that oil in the sump goes black over time and why do crankcases emit fumes out of the breather? Could be all the contaminants?!!! Plus with diesels running a much higher compression there's a greater risk of piston ring blow-by leading to combustion chamber products getting into the sump

Either way, find a good motor factor with a book from their oil supplier that states which oils should be used for each manufacturer. Mine did that for me and could tell me exactly which oil to use whether it be for a gearbox, axle or engine

 

[purple haze]

Kev,

Not sure which site you were looking at for the miller's oil but it is less than £20 for 5 litres here: http://www.performance-oils.co.uk/acatalog/Millers.html

"Edit": Sorry, 'including postage'. Speed reading... I took the opportunity to add some engine oil to my order to cushion the delivery charges a bit!

Haha..yeah..Postage!!!!....Was the same web-site...Uno45 I'm defo going for the HD 40....thanks again for confirming what my motor factors said..:worship:

kev

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

And why do you think that oil in the sump goes black over time and why do crankcases emit fumes out of the breather? Could be all the contaminants?!!!

I'm fully aware that the blackness in oil is carbon build up. Just the way it's all been described makes it sound like more carbon goes into oil in Diesels (I mean it makes it sound like thats all oil is for in Diesels when its not).

Detergents in oil can't make carbon deposits in the oil suddenly dissapear or go back into the combustion chamber and out of the exhaust. Only thing that can do that it oil change.

 

[Chas Uno]

Detergents in oil can't make carbon deposits in the oil suddenly dissapear or go back into the combustion chamber and out of the exhaust. Only thing that can do that it oil change.

All the oil changes in the world won't help if carbon is furring up the oilways. That's why detergents are added to prevent carbon deposits from building up around the engine and then leading to blocked oil passages. They're not there to magically get rid of the deposits! Like all contaminants, they should end up in the sump and the worst should get caught in the oil filter. Again, diesels are more prone to carbon build up compared with petrol engines because of the reasons given earlier in this thread, hence that's why diesel engine oil has specific differences to petrol engine oil.

But you seem to think that there are no differences!

Petrol and Diesel engine oil of the same grade are the same thing. No additaves are different, none can remove carb deposits. The only thing that can do that is regular oil changes.

The only reason why some oils are marked Petrol or Diesel is so that the numpties out there who have no idea what oil their car takes put something roughly of the correct grade in, and make then phycoligically happier also

 

[james2609]

(not 100% certain if this is right) Diesel oil has more additives to keep carbon and soot deposits in suspension. As you know, there are engine oils out there for both petrol and diesel engines. I don't think there is much difference apart from the additives. I don't know what would happen if you put diesel oil in a petrol car.. maybe it would keep it cleaner?!! haha!

Who knows! I'll ask the guy at BP next time I stop in.. second thought, they can't even pick out the right thing in their wild bean cafe when I ask for it so doubt they'll know the difference in oils!

 

[arc]

doesnt the A series engine in the mini share gear and engine oil ? its all one big sump? i know totally dif cars, but meh, oil is oil