Hi All, I need advice about transmission problem on our motorhome. It is a Roler team T-Line 740, year 2019, built on Fiat Ducato Multijet 130 (2.3 diesel). The van is just over 70K km and recently run into a problem with the transmission. Currently it is stuck to neutral and will not engage any other gear. When I turn the ignition on the gear selector can go to 1 and R but, as soon as I start the motor, it goes straight to Neutral. Towed the motorhome to the local mechanic but they redirected me to Fiat authorized service. Reading multiple posts, I understand the problem can be as simple as a software reset and as big as tens of thousands of dollars gearbox replacement. How can I keep the service honest for what they are doing?
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- Thread starter Ilian
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Hi,
You could get multi ecu scan software and the correct interface cables for your vehicle in order to read faults from transmission ecu. You would then know if service centre are reporting the same faults.
In the meantime if you have any doubts about vehicle battery sort that out.
Good luck.
Jack
You could get multi ecu scan software and the correct interface cables for your vehicle in order to read faults from transmission ecu. You would then know if service centre are reporting the same faults.
In the meantime if you have any doubts about vehicle battery sort that out.
Good luck.
Jack
Thanks for your response. Well, I just heard back from the Fiat service and they reported initial diagnostics shows mechanical clutch failure. The computer scan cannot show more details. They need to de-couple the gearbox to find what is broken. In the worst case scenario the repair will cost $13K (NZ dollars). They advised just the flywheel cost more than 6K. Is this normal? I can see in Internet the clutch replacement kit goes about $1200
Fiat branded service centres MUST source parts from FIAT or they face large fines and forfeit their FIAT accreditation.
FIAT branded parts have a large increase in price from the price paid to the part manufacturer FIAT uses.
Clutch kits are vehicle specific down to the type of transmission. A kit for a manual gearbox is similar to a confortmatic but not the same.
Make absolutely sure the clutch slave cylinder is replaced , they are expensive but not as expensive as having to have it all taken apart again if slave cylinder fails subsequently.
Once the gearbox / clutch has been off the transmission ecu needs to be connected to a computer to teach new component settings.
Thanks for update.
Best wishes
Jack
FIAT branded parts have a large increase in price from the price paid to the part manufacturer FIAT uses.
Clutch kits are vehicle specific down to the type of transmission. A kit for a manual gearbox is similar to a confortmatic but not the same.
Make absolutely sure the clutch slave cylinder is replaced , they are expensive but not as expensive as having to have it all taken apart again if slave cylinder fails subsequently.
Once the gearbox / clutch has been off the transmission ecu needs to be connected to a computer to teach new component settings.
Thanks for update.
Best wishes
Jack
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Maybe this varies from country to country or even within countries. The Fiat branded workshop I normally use definitely installs parts from other suppliers also.
Do not tell anyone you could get them in big trouble
Hi Jack,
I just received the verdict from the Fiat service and thought others may be interested to see it. I would be interested to hear your considerations about it. Can anyone speculate what might have caused the damage and how to avoid it in future? I wouldn’t have thought that transmissions are designed to last more than 70k kilometres.
From the mechanics:
We have removed the transmission and clutch assembly.
The dual mass flywheel has hot spots on the clutch plate surface and some of the springs have broken.
The flywheel cannot be serviced.
There is cross contamination of the Selespeed oil and clutch fluid.
Parts required;
Clutch kit
Dual mass flywheel.
Clutch master pump.
Clutch slave cylinder.
Connection pipe.
Transmission oil.
Selespeed oil.
Clutch fluid.
I just received the verdict from the Fiat service and thought others may be interested to see it. I would be interested to hear your considerations about it. Can anyone speculate what might have caused the damage and how to avoid it in future? I wouldn’t have thought that transmissions are designed to last more than 70k kilometres.
From the mechanics:
We have removed the transmission and clutch assembly.
The dual mass flywheel has hot spots on the clutch plate surface and some of the springs have broken.
The flywheel cannot be serviced.
There is cross contamination of the Selespeed oil and clutch fluid.
Parts required;
Clutch kit
Dual mass flywheel.
Clutch master pump.
Clutch slave cylinder.
Connection pipe.
Transmission oil.
Selespeed oil.
Clutch fluid.
Hi,
I would expect the clutch and flywheel to last more than 70,000 km . Having written that I dont know the terrain those km s have been driven in and running weight of vehicle.
The fiat service have done well to spot the cross contamination of the fluids. That there has been cross contamination is unusual.
The part list is correct.
For the future try to reduced running weight if possible.
If can please get pictures of the flywheel and friction plate and pressure plate friction surface.
Best wishes
Jack
I would expect the clutch and flywheel to last more than 70,000 km . Having written that I dont know the terrain those km s have been driven in and running weight of vehicle.
The fiat service have done well to spot the cross contamination of the fluids. That there has been cross contamination is unusual.
The part list is correct.
For the future try to reduced running weight if possible.
If can please get pictures of the flywheel and friction plate and pressure plate friction surface.
Best wishes
Jack
I am not suggesting that you hold the vehicle on any incline using the transmition rather than the brake/hand brake but doing so will wear out /damage the clutch.
Traditional auto boxes with torque converter can be used to "creep" the vehicle very slowly with no harm.
Automated manual boxes overheat/damage clutch/flywheel if used to "creep" the vehicle
Traditional auto boxes with torque converter can be used to "creep" the vehicle very slowly with no harm.
Automated manual boxes overheat/damage clutch/flywheel if used to "creep" the vehicle
Thank you! I asked Fiat for photos, not sure I will get any. The vehicle weigh 3150kg with 350kg payload. I always park on a gear with the handbrake on. The Fiat tech said the most often reason for this failure is the rust forming on the flywheel when the van is left stationary for longer periods (like winter). About a year ago I tried to reverse the motorhome on a very steep driveway and it wouldn’t go. I didn’t know at the time that this was a known Fiat problem. There was a lot of clutch smoke. I was concerned but the van drove just fine another 30K. I think the transmission was a bit noisy lately, similar to a CVT, especially when accelerating.
Smoking the clutch with van not reversing up a very steep slope is very likely what started the early clutch failure. It certainly would have seriously over heated the clutch and flywheel.
The "cvt" noise you describe makes me conclude that was the clutch slipping even after the clutch fully engaged. Causing more heat to clutch and flywheel.
The transmition ecu can detect clutch slipping when it should not be slipping and this is the likely cause of the clutch failure code .
The "cvt" noise you describe makes me conclude that was the clutch slipping even after the clutch fully engaged. Causing more heat to clutch and flywheel.
The transmition ecu can detect clutch slipping when it should not be slipping and this is the likely cause of the clutch failure code .
It's been a while since my last post so here is an update. It could be useful for others experiencing the same issue. The clutch was replaced by Fiat's only authorized service in New Zealand. It took more than 3 months and cost way too much. You can see the attached invoice. I've done about 1500km since the repair and all was good until yesterday when the motor went into a limp mode, no fault was displayed. I've restarted and all was back to normal. I've got the "Deja vu" feeling the gearbox problem may not be properly fixed.
Can anyone recommend a proper ECU scanner? I bought ELM 327 Bluetooth interface and downloaded the Multiecuscan app but it cannot recognize the ECU. The app that came with the ELM interface can connect and do only basic diagnostics.
Regards,
Ilian
Can anyone recommend a proper ECU scanner? I bought ELM 327 Bluetooth interface and downloaded the Multiecuscan app but it cannot recognize the ECU. The app that came with the ELM interface can connect and do only basic diagnostics.
Regards,
Ilian
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The most popular scanner is Multiecuscan running on a Windows computer. @theoneandonly iwill be able to advise further, but given the time difference he may not read this for sveral hours.
theoneandonly
Prominent member
What software/ hardware do i need to read OBD2 Codes
This a much bigger question than first appears. If we limit it to what is a cost effective DIY solution to "read my Fiat and simple maintenance issues eg change the oil in my euro 6 or add a new MAF sensor" then the answer for me reduces to...
www.fiatforum.com
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Hello.
Here in Finland we have a 2018 Fiat Ducato T58 with multijet transmission. Tomorrow will be 50k km. We had many times last summer same "gear unavailable" problem even with 30k driven. Somehow we always got it working. I don't know the really right reason but today when it came again 100 km from home I did as follows. Spray WD40 in five connectors just in the middle at the front. Easy to click open a small tab and take apart the connector.
Put ignition on and without pressing break, without starting motor, change the gear. There will be a error that says something like Repeat with pressing break. Turn off and then start as normal and here we go again
Here in Finland we have a 2018 Fiat Ducato T58 with multijet transmission. Tomorrow will be 50k km. We had many times last summer same "gear unavailable" problem even with 30k driven. Somehow we always got it working. I don't know the really right reason but today when it came again 100 km from home I did as follows. Spray WD40 in five connectors just in the middle at the front. Easy to click open a small tab and take apart the connector.
Put ignition on and without pressing break, without starting motor, change the gear. There will be a error that says something like Repeat with pressing break. Turn off and then start as normal and here we go again
MES & Adaptors in Australia
I thought I would add this to this thread as
Gear Unavailable is a common occurrence.
The following is how I set up to use Multiecuscan on my laptop running windows 10.
Download Multiecuscan to Laptop
Purchase Multiecuscan licence to register copy
Purchase OBD Link SX red cable - OBD port to Laptop USB port (I got one from Amazon $80 AUD)
Purchase Adaptor cables (4 pack from OBD2 Australia $48 AUD)
The following is what I have used on Fiat Ducato
2007-2012 only need Red OBD Link SX to read all modules
2012 to 2016 Use Yellow adaptor to access Engine & Gearbox.
For other modules use the Red OBD Link SX cable only
I thought I would add this to this thread as
Gear Unavailable is a common occurrence.
The following is how I set up to use Multiecuscan on my laptop running windows 10.
Download Multiecuscan to Laptop
Purchase Multiecuscan licence to register copy
Purchase OBD Link SX red cable - OBD port to Laptop USB port (I got one from Amazon $80 AUD)
Purchase Adaptor cables (4 pack from OBD2 Australia $48 AUD)
The following is what I have used on Fiat Ducato
2007-2012 only need Red OBD Link SX to read all modules
2012 to 2016 Use Yellow adaptor to access Engine & Gearbox.
For other modules use the Red OBD Link SX cable only
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