Technical Gear selection

[robinsonx19]

Having recently said the 5spd gearbox is strong, I find myself struggling to down shift into third and also select reverse at idle (wouldn't want to selected it at any other time - ). Fifth is also tight. Things weren't too bad till a recent track day. At the moment third can only be smoothly down shifted to by double-clutching and a good dose of revs between. To get fifth you have to get the lever right across give it a slight back "wiggle" then push it through - not a fast change and sometimes it feels very "tight". Reverse is also difficult to get sometimes, again very tight. Initially I thought this was a clutch adjustment issue as the two locking nuts on the slave cylinder rod hadn't, that is they had screw themselves a long way down the shaft. There's no clutch slip. Third seemed to down shift OK on the track but obviously everything was spinning a lot faster than round town. Can anyone suggest what I need to look at?

Cheers

 

[ladaspeed]

It wouldn't have anything to do with spectacular 360 degree spins at the track day would it?

Have a look at the top engine mount - if these are too slogged out then the engine tilts under acceleration and makes the alignment of the gear shift mech not so good, it can get sticky as a result. You might have seen the top mount on mine, I have replaced one of the rubbery bits with a spherical bearing, this restricts the tilting of the engine quite a lot....

 

[Steve I]

Hi!
Sounds as though you may have loose lollipops!!! Sounds strange but under the car there is a lollypop shaped connector on the selector bar that is attached to the gearbox. It acts as a damper preventing noise and vibration going through to your gear stick, it has rubber between the two faces and can tear or come apart completely. Usually if torn you have difficulty getting it into reverse or 5th gear. Worth a look at, good luck!
Steve

 

[robinsonx19]

Thanks guys

Ladaspeed- nothing to do with the three spins how could you suggest such a thing

I'll check the mounts.

Steve, I know the lollipops, I'll definitely look as those too. If the rubber has gone do you have any idea of its thickness and type? Will any disk of rubber do?

I'd sure love it if I don't have to pull the gearbox and do syncros, etc

Cheers
Pete

 

[jimbro1000]

Sorry for keeping on saying this but I can't stress how good the stuff is - if the box is feeling a bit clunky and resistant to shifting (and the lollipops are good) then get the box refilled with redline MTL or redline MT90 (depending on taste). You will be amazed and how much of a difference the oil makes in the operation of the box

 

[ladaspeed]

I have a spare lollipop if you want it - I got it to replace mine, but mine has the different 'solid' mounted one. The lollipop is not new, but is in pretty good nick. Drop me a text if you want it....

 

[robinsonx19]

Sorry for keeping on saying this but I can't stress how good the stuff is - if the box is feeling a bit clunky and resistant to shifting (and the lollipops are good) then get the box refilled with redline MTL or redline MT90 (depending on taste). You will be amazed and how much of a difference the oil makes in the operation of the box

Thanks Jimbro, I'll try and see if I can track that oil down in NZ. Pete

 

[Lucio]

Jimbro, what do you mean by 'depending on taste'. Isn't one preferable to the other? Is there a noticeable difference between the 2 oils? Also do you know the capacity of the gearbox, roughly?-Haynes doesn't seem to state it. Cheers.

 

[jimbro1000]

Redline MTL is an 80 grade oil, MT90 is 90 grade. Some people prefer the thinner MTL while the MT90 may feel better for a more worn box. For extreme cases they do a 140 grade oil (actually a grease) where the internals are being subjected to very heavy loads.

 

[robinsonx19]

Jimbro, what do you mean by 'depending on taste'. Isn't one preferable to the other? Is there a noticeable difference between the 2 oils? Also do you know the capacity of the gearbox, roughly?-Haynes doesn't seem to state it. Cheers.

Look at page 10 in Haynes - transmission capacity is listed as 3.15 litres (3 1/3 qts for the Americans and 5 3/4 pints for the Brits)

 

[Lucio]

Thanks Jimbro. Thanks robinsonx19-I knew it had to be in there somewhere!

 

[bludvl_x19]

Jimbro, you don't happen to work for Redline do you :chin:

Robinsonx19- have a look at the bottom engine crossmember, mine dropped a bolt out of there yesterday, and is giving the symptoms that you describe. Just a bugger for me because I cant drive it until a bolt shop opens on Tuesday

 

[jimbro1000]

There are few automotive products that I have been really, deeply impressed with and the redline gear oils (and water wetter) are among them.

Initially we were looking at those oils purely for racing purposes and I took them on as a recommendation from autocrossers on xweb but over the last few years we've been putting it in everything because it just works so incredibly well. The downside is the price but given how expensive proper decent engine oil is now as well I don't feel so hard done by on the gearbox oil (especially when you need so little in a modern box).

Go and have a look at the redline oils website for an idea of why they are so good.

 

[Lucio]

Jimbro..I'm looking at the demon tweeks website..the redline oil you recommend-is the 'Redline MTL 75W80 Gear Oil' the correct one? Also, it's supplied in quart bottles which is 0.94 of a litre so for an X1/9 capacity of 3.15 litres I would need 4 bottles-wouldnt get away with 3 would I?
Is filling the gearbox a bit of a bugger?

 

[bludvl_x19]

Jimbro..I'm looking at the demon tweeks website..the redline oil you recommend-is the 'Redline MTL 75W80 Gear Oil' the correct one? Also, it's supplied in quart bottles which is 0.94 of a litre so for an X1/9 capacity of 3.15 litres I would need 4 bottles-wouldnt get away with 3 would I?
Is filling the gearbox a bit of a bugger?

If you dont have the carby fan in place still, then all you need one of these which will stick into the hole easily, and stay there until bou have filled it up. THats the way I have done it the 5 or 6 times that I have needed to so far.
This would still work with the carby fan still there, but I think that it would complicate things a bit

 

[robinsonx19]

Just an update. No lollipop shaped link on my X1/9; this is the same as Ladaspeed. The link does essentially the same its just a different shape. Have photos if anyone interested but would have to get them off the phone.

Anyhow stripped the link and cleaned it all up. When putting it back together I made sure the gear shift was straight up and down and thus central. This infact isn't (or didn't appear) central to the shift gates but what a big difference to both reverse and fifth. The shift slides in to these with little work now. I adjusted up the clutch at the same time and then drained the gearbox and have added Redline MT90 (this is the all synthetic 75W-90) as recommended by Jimbro. Ran out of time to do a test drive but the only problem that was still evident before the oil change was the niggly down shift to third so I'm hoping the Redline will fix this.

Yes Lucio, you will need to buy four bottles to get a full gearbox. I also found it helped by taking out the panels between the boot and the engine bay and having the funnel with a flex hose in the boot to fill; rather than from in the engine bay, you also get better access to the filler bung. When you get to the fourth bottle get someone else to slowly pour while you look underneath to see when oil starts to come out the filler hole. It is certainly not as difficult as it sounds.

Thanks for the tip on the engine mount Bludvl - I had checked these but Ladaspeed also suggested movement in either engine mount could affect shifting.

I'll post feedback on the Redline when I've had a chence to do a few miles.

Cheers and thanks to everyone.

 

[jimbro1000]

If the engine mounts are excessively worn you can get a situation where the movement is sufficient to effect a gearchange (to neutral at least) as the engine rocks under torque. The lower mount (the one on the gearbox) is the one you really need to keep in good order to prevent this but all three mounts can cause problems in this respect.