Technical Fuel cutoff 1988 Ducato?

[jpmc]

Hi i have a 1988 ducato motorhome 2.4 diesel i had a slight bump into a high fence i drove about 20 yards and parked up. I went to start it about 6 hours later but it wouldnt start. It is turning over but not firing. The symptoms are the same as when a fuel cutoff is activated but I am not sure if there is a fuel cutoff on this year of ducato. I have replaced the fuel solenoid. It is left hand drive. I have looked above the battery, under the bulkhead near windscreen and lifted the rubber mats in both footwells but can't find a cutoff switch any one come across this or have any ideas thanks

 

[Communicator]

My 1990 Talbot Express used a mechanical lift pump, and as I remember, did not have an inertia switch. The inertia switch normally interrupts the 12V supply to the electric lift pump in the tank. Hence I would not expect an inertia switch where a mechanical lift pump is fitted, but I see no reason why it could not be used in conjunction with the fuel cut off solenoid.

There are I believe some engines that only have the injection pump, and no separate lift pump.

Have you checked the 12V supply to the cut off solenoid with a meter or test lamp, when ignition is on? This would seem to eliminate an electrical device.

Is your 2.4 direct, or indirect injection? From Wikipedia it seems that either is possible, with the direct injection version being a turbo version. The indirect injection engine would probably need functioning glowplugs for a cold start.

To get down to basics, a correctly timed diesel engine needs air, fuel, and sufficient cranking speed in order to start.

What is the recent history of vehicle? Has it been idle, and could mice have penetrated the air filter?

 

[airwave]

Hi i have a 1988 ducato motorhome 2.4 diesel i had a slight bump into a high fence i drove about 20 yards and parked up. I went to start it about 6 hours later but it wouldnt start. It is turning over but not firing. The symptoms are the same as when a fuel cutoff is activated but I am not sure if there is a fuel cutoff on this year of ducato. I have replaced the fuel solenoid. It is left hand drive. I have looked above the battery, under the bulkhead near windscreen and lifted the rubber mats in both footwells but can't find a cutoff switch any one come across this or have any ideas thanks

This is a slightly tricky question to answer , but does ultimately find me , in total agreement with @Communicator thoughts here . My understanding is that these inertia solenoids were fitted to interrupt the electrical supply , in the event of a heavy impact , to electric fuel systems , to prevent fuel being pumped on to the road . Now it should be borne in mind at this point , i have no working knowledge of the 2.5 , as my own vehicle is the slightly later 2.8 , and that does have an electric pump , a lift pump , plus what appears to be an inertia cut off . However unlike my mothers 1997 Mini , the top section does not compress . Now the interesting thing here is , my understanding is these solenoids were only fitted to ecu equipped motors , of which my duke is not one . My mothers Mini however does have all four , but just to muddy the waters completely , my 94 Citroen does have an electric pump , no lift pump , no solenoid , and even worse no ecu .

So , it's position working from my own motor , also a left hooker , it's on the right hand side firewall , above the battery . Being a left hooker this actually means it's fitted to the vehicles nearside , identically the same place as on the Mini . I believe this is for maximum protection , but don't quote me on that . It just so happens , i'm driving the vehicle where in effect , we are driving on the wrong side of the road . It will be mounted within the engine compartment , usually to something solid for example the fire wall , not inside the car .
Now in my opinion , this is not the fault , and that is based on two factors . One you describe the impact as a slight bump . Normally a heavy impact is required to activate these things , but perhaps more importantly is the second factor , you drove a further 20 yards . The solenoid should have activated instantly , not 20 yards down the road . How much fuel could have been emptied in that period , had the fuel system actually been damaged .

So now i'm gonna butt out here , but i would strongly advise you look further , as per @Communicator 's advice , i suspect that may lead to the answer .

 

[jpmc]

So still not sorted. I haven't been able to locate a fuel cutoff and think that there isn't one on this vehicle. That would make sense looking at airwave's comment (thanks airwave) I have replaced the fuel pump (mechanical) replaced starter and checked that fuel is being supplied to all injectors. Anyone have any other ideas. Thanks also to communicator for your suggestions No problems in air filter. The vehicle was driven 30 miles whin the bump happened. I am wondering if it is possible that the timing belt has slipped. I have no idea how to sort that myself so i am looking for a mobile mechanic who could take a look. I am in galway,ireland

 

[airwave]

So still not sorted. I haven't been able to locate a fuel cutoff and think that there isn't one on this vehicle. That would make sense looking at airwave's comment (thanks airwave) I have replaced the fuel pump (mechanical) replaced starter and checked that fuel is being supplied to all injectors. Anyone have any other ideas. Thanks also to communicator for your suggestions No problems in air filter. The vehicle was driven 30 miles whin the bump happened. I am wondering if it is possible that the timing belt has slipped. I have no idea how to sort that myself so i am looking for a mobile mechanic who could take a look. I am in galway,ireland

Just so we can get this one outta the way here . Try operating the starter , with the lights switched on .

Now i say this , because you have , or at least i assume you have two of the main elements for ignition . There really is not much that can go wrong with older diesels , that's why i have two . Of course i'm assuming diesel is actually reaching the injectors . That instantly leads me to think your battery could have a problem .
Have someone stand in front of the vehicle , while you cranking the motor over . The lights will dim , but only very very slightly . Any more would indicate an issue , but not necessarily a faulty battery . Though it is possible it could be breaking down under load . Check the battery connections are tight , as is the main chassis earth . Mine is directly below the battery on the main chassis member . If these are fine and the battery is old , maybe it would be worth having it checked . Any good tyre centre , who market batteries should be able to do this , else try a local medium sized garage .
On a vehicle of this age , i would also take a look at the starter motor connections . A poor connection here will lead to reduced power at the starter . On my duke (a year 2000) , the starter motor is mounted on the front of the engine , low down , and a previous owner had removed the belly pan . The state of these heavy duty connections was not what i would have classed the best . As my engine basically has what is a 2.5 lower block , i would guess yours will be the same place .
Another area worthy of consideration , is the engine earth strap . Somewhere there should be a heavy cable , earthing the engine to the chassis . Normally this is a braided cable with no outer sheathing . A quick get out of jail card to play here , would be a jump lead . Connect to a good earth on the chassis , and the same on the block . Make sure it's clear of any rotating parts , but i would not recommend earthing directly to the battery . My understanding is , these straps are prone to problems , yet the interesting thing here is , i've yet to find mine !
I suspect the starter earth strap may well , perform both tasks .

There really is no reason to assume anything's wrong with your timing , at this point . Unless you have good reason to think otherwise , for example someone has been fiddling .
A minor bump , is highly unlikely to have altered , or give cause for the belt to slip .

 

[Communicator]

The vehicle has been has been described as a "2.4 diesel" . With some research a 2.4D does not appear to have been an option for Fiat badged vehicles in 1998 . There was however a 2.5D with indirect injection (Iveco 8140.67) or two versions of the 2.5TDI with direct injection (Iveco 8140.47). Perhaps a typing error?

As "TD" was not included in the engine description it suggests that the engine is the 2.5D. This engine as stated above, is an indirect injection engine. My experience with indirect injection diesels is that they require glowplugs when starting from cold. (First start of the day.)

Are the glowplugs still functioning?

 

[airwave]

Are the glowplugs still functioning?

Or could it be , the functioning of these is depleting the battery ? .

I noticed the 2.4 query too , i just took it as a tipo .

 

[jpmc]

thanks everyone yes my apologies it is 2.5D . I had a friend suggest it could be the glow plug relay. I took this off to take a look even though it was only replaced 6 months ago. I found one of the screw on connections had melted plastic all round it . The relay that is fitted is a hugo 132052 but when i checked with a couple of online suppliers they came back with hugo 132081 as the correct replacement I have ordered the 132081 and i am hoping that will solve the problem (ever the optimist I haven't been able to find specs for the 2 relays so don't know if the 132081 has a higher current rating. Also I don't know the condition of the glow plugs but will look at replacing them. Also at the moment the rain is very heavy so no more checking (especially for dimming headlights) until the new relay arrives hopefully in the next few days. If this doen't solve it then new battery it is

 

[airwave]

If this doen't solve it then new battery it is

Get the old one checked first though , no point in spending out on something you don't really need ! .

I have to be honest , i'm not familiar with the glow plug system on Fiats , mine has flame start . But my Citroen does have glow plugs , and the car will start without them . Actually quite easily , i rarely used them . Both rarely turn over for more than a second , it's almost instant . Fiat used to be the longest , but since i changed the timing belt , for some reason it has improved . Done a lot of other work as well , maybe the starter terminals made a difference , they really were in a bit of a state . But other than that , the belt could really have been the only other thing that improved it .

 

[bugsymike]

So still not sorted. I haven't been able to locate a fuel cutoff and think that there isn't one on this vehicle. That would make sense looking at airwave's comment (thanks airwave) I have replaced the fuel pump (mechanical) replaced starter and checked that fuel is being supplied to all injectors. Anyone have any other ideas. Thanks also to communicator for your suggestions No problems in air filter. The vehicle was driven 30 miles whin the bump happened. I am wondering if it is possible that the timing belt has slipped. I have no idea how to sort that myself so i am looking for a mobile mechanic who could take a look. I am in galway,ireland

Usually if cambelt snapped etc. engine will spin over faster than normal as no compression, unless of course totally seized .
It is a long time since I had one of those engines in Iveco Daily, but is it possible to see the camshaft through the oil filler cap on top of engine, if so have someone spin the engine over with the key and see if cam moves, hopefully it does, otherwise the cambelt cover will need to come off .

 

[Towat]

Hi i have a 1988 ducato motorhome 2.4 diesel i had a slight bump into a high fence i drove about 20 yards and parked up. I went to start it about 6 hours later but it wouldnt start. It is turning over but not firing. The symptoms are the same as when a fuel cutoff is activated but I am not sure if there is a fuel cutoff on this year of ducato. I have replaced the fuel solenoid. It is left hand drive. I have looked above the battery, under the bulkhead near windscreen and lifted the rubber mats in both footwells but can't find a cutoff switch any one come across this or have any ideas thanks

Silly question but have you checked the drivers side sun visor? my 1998 2.5td has instructions about the fuel cut off printed there.

 

[jpmc]

thanks everyone yes my apologies it is 2.5D . I had a friend suggest it could be the glow plug relay. I took this off to take a look even though it was only replaced 6 months ago. I found one of the screw on connections had melted plastic all round it . The relay that is fitted is a hugo 132052 but when i checked with a couple of online suppliers they came back with hugo 132081 as the correct replacement I have ordered the 132081 and i am hoping that will solve the problem (ever the optimist I haven't been able to find specs for the 2 relays so don't know if the 132081 has a higher current rating. Also I don't know the condition of the glow plugs but will look at replacing them. Also at the moment the rain is very heavy so no more checking (especially for dimming headlights) until the new relay arrives hopefully in the next few days. If this doen't solve it then new battery it is

Hi again everyone. Well it turns out there is no fuel cutoff on this motorhome. The problem was not related to the bump. It was the glowplug relay. After trying everything I could think of a friend said to me that the only thing left was the relay. It seemed unlikely as it had only been replaced 6 months previously. On removing the relay I found the plastic around the 2 screw on connections had melted. I have replaced the relay this morning more in desperation than anything else. The engine fired up after a few splutters and everything is good again. Pity the weater isn't up to a weekend away
Thanks everyone for your suggestions it is greatly appreciated