Technical Front Dampers and stuff

[auto_blanco]

My Sporting has been making intermittant noises from the front end for a while now and for once my dealer made some progress. It seems the noises are an internal problem within the dampers, and Fiat are working on a fix, which will be applied to my car when available. If they were changed for the existing ones now the problem would eventually reappear. I think the ones for the petrol models are the same as for the diesels, seems a bit odd and possibly why the ride isnt really good enough alot of the time, so hopefully the rates will have been adjusted on the revised ones.

For reference the noises arent constant, and range from a light tinkling sort of like worn drop links, to a heavier thump or knock noise. It seems to vary depending on road surface and temperature.

Also its having a new drivers seat frame fitted and has had some adjustments to the subframe and various fittings tightened up which has had the effect of making the front end feel 'tighter' like when it was newer. Quite why a modern car should need these adjustments however is beyond me, although at least they have been done. I wouldnt want to own it past the warranty period though if this stuff needs to be done annually on top of a service.

At last I can give some kudos to the service dept at Startins Redditch.

 

[punto_matt]

Quite why a modern car should need these adjustments however is beyond me, although at least they have been done. I wouldnt want to own it past the warranty period though if this stuff needs to be done annually on top of a service.

Because stuff will become "loose" the more miles you put on it. Doesnt matter how old the car is stuff like that will still happen so nothing you can do about it.

 

[T14086]

NEver heard of any front damper problems on a GP let alone know of one being changed...are you sure you/they not confusing it for top strut bearings?

 

[auto_blanco]

NEver heard of any front damper problems on a GP let alone know of one being changed...are you sure you/they not confusing it for top strut bearings?

im just passing on what ive been told, to be honest I told them strut top mounts when I booked it and dropped it off but apparently they have another one in with the same problem with the dampers being noisy when nothing else is worn and there is a fix on the way, im hopeful but not confident!

Also I should add I have had alot of cars, and out of all of the cars ive had the Punto has been treated the best, looked after the most, driven with the most care yet has given me the most issues, thats what I resent, not that its not perfect im not stupid, but its only just 2 years old, the 3rd year warranty is dubious at best which worries me and faults on these to do with the EPS and suspension are likely to be expensive to mend in the long term.

 

[punto_matt]

I have plenty of respect for other people opinions. Fiat are one of the better brands. Find cars in the same price range as all Fiats that will equal or better what you get from Fiat for your money. Yes they have small problems but what car doesnt? All my dads german cars have problems, bits of trim rattling, stuff needs replace etc etc. On one of his cars he has just had to have the injectors replaced at a cost of £6500( under warrenty) and you wouldnt be expecting these to go would you? Just because one person has a problem with a part doesnt make it a ****e car. Its getting sorted under warrenty so where is the problem? After all thats what the warrenty is there for to sort out any of the faults the car may have as nothing is perfect.

 

[NumanR]

I havent heard of Grande mods but I do remember reading somewhere about valve noises inside the strut but cant for the life of me remember which model this was?

 

[fenton_jd]

I know nothing on designing cars, but the basic damper has been around for some time now has it not? I cant see how these issues can occur.

Sometimes its as if a chunk of car building knowledge is lost every time a new model comes out.

That said though, British roads are mostly in a disgusting condition. Large speed bumps and pot holes everywhere.

The suspension on my last 4 cars, (2x italian, 1 x french and 1x japaneese) have all been destroyed by the speedbumps on my road, and I go over them slowly.

 

[punto_matt]

I know nothing on designing cars, but the basic damper has been around for some time now has it not? I cant see how these issues can occur.

They have but you can always get the odd dodgy one coming off the production line like any other thing mass manufactured. Also dampers will be outsourced and bought from another company will they not so its pretty unfair to slag Fiat about them when another company has made them.

 

[auto_blanco]

The modern damper is a complex device and valve noises seem the likely culprit. The car has been in a couple of times over this and this is the 1st time this has been mentioned so maybe its a new development.

If I had to put forward my own theory, I think the lighter weight of the petrol engine using the dampers from a diesel are causing them to seize a bit unless used to their full travel, difficult when the springs are so hard, but mine seems to quieten down a bit after driving quickly down some undulating roads and getting the suspension through more of its travel.

 

[Rattlebang]

The guy who started off this thread, Auto Blanco, is absolutely correct with the information he posted regarding the front dampers on the Grande Punto. I had the same problem on my 2008 GP with a clunking noise being heard at the front of the car on uneven urban roads at lower speeds of about 30mph.

FIAT have finally found out that they have a problem with the internal valve on the front dampers which means that at lower speeds on urban roads the piston reached it's limit too easily causing a clunking noise when it did so. It was not been an easy problem to identify as there are no external signs to indicate the actual cause such as oil leaks or excessive play on the fittings and it only appears when the vehicle is under load.

It must have cost FIAT a fortune by guessing and replacing drop links, anti-roll bars, drive shaft bearings and steering racks before they sorted this one out.

 

[NumanR]

OK guys, dealers should have info within a few weeks.

 

[auto_blanco]

Wahoo at last some of my faith is restored!! Good news thanks!

 

[T14086]

It must have cost FIAT a fortune by guessing and replacing drop links, anti-roll bars, drive shaft bearings and steering racks before they sorted this one out.

Not really, the components you listed are/have been known to give problems, plus why change driveshaft bearings

 

[Rattlebang]

Not really, the components you listed are/have been known to give problems, plus why change driveshaft bearings

The dealership seemed to be working on the principle that if they changed everything that could wear out on the front of my GP they might get lucky and cure the problem.

Based on my own engineering experience it was me who suggested on the third visit that they consider the shock absorber for exactly the reason that FIAT discovered them to be faulty. I was totally unaware at the time that this was an issue that FIAT already knew about.

My deduction was based on the simple fact that if you run all the standard fault tests on the other parts of the front suspension and no obvious defect is found then whatever you are left with, in this case the damper, must be the source of the problem even though it shows no obvious external signs of wear and tear.

Through doing a full strip down of the suspect damper FIAT have indeed found this to be the case so perhaps they ought to listen to their customers more often, especially those who explain their own engineering background beforehand.

 

[auto_blanco]

May I ask which dealership you took yours in to? If this cures the issues you have saved my sanity driving on urban roads! And I wont have to have the stereo on so loud lol

 

[John C1961]

Interesting stuff thanks. My 1.3 Multijet Diesel Van has had the problem from new and has now covered 30,000 miles in the past 4 months. There are no other rattles or squeaks just this knocking from the front suspension over speed humps and pot holes. I thought it was a/roll bar links or strut mounts but as you say this is not a constant problem and temperature does affect it. Thing is where to find a Fiat dealer who is aware of the problem and can produce sufficient enthusiasm to fix it. I don't know the answer to this one!

 

[alexh365]

Seem to have aquired a broken spring and shock which has been causing my steering to be well out recently.

Whats the chance this new replacement shock is now in service and will be fitted tommorow?

 

[punto_matt]

Doubtful. Will have to be ordered in i would think. Might be able to get it on next day if there is enough stock about.

 

[alexh365]

Doubtful. Will have to be ordered in i would think. Might be able to get it on next day if there is enough stock about.

Sorry Matt, my q didnt quite make sense. They are actually ordered and should arrive today for them to fit, but whats the chance that they are the new design rather than the same as whats already fitted?

Al

 

[punto_matt]

Who knows mate its Fiat! If if was a new design then they would probably replace both sides.