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Technical Finding timing or my problem.

sliden0101

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Dear Fiat Panda Owners,

I replaced my timing on my 2006 fiat panda mk3 1.1 54le (187A1000).

The original fiat belt had two lines on the outside lined up with the camshaft and the crankshaft marks. And the same time the crankshaft was lined up with the line on the engine block and the camshaft was around at 9'o clock position. Rookie mistake i did not mark the gears to the engine before removing the belt.
I installed the new belt which had the same amount of teeth and length as the old fiat one just it was thinner than to original only 15mm not 22mm.
This new belt had two lines on the outside as well and i use those lines to reinstall it correctly, on the bottom, i watched the gear it was still on the engine mark position but the camshaft gear i couldn't see if it's on a mark or not because i didn't see the mark on the engine. I believe i did not move the camshaft when setting up the tensioner and the new two lines was lining up as before.

After i was done putting everything back i started using the car. Some kilometers went by (maybe a month) and i started hearing a noise that sounded like the engine has bearing failure + small engine shaking + small pops on idle and it had zero symptoms before and no coolant no oil missing. First idea i did something wrong in the timing.

I removed the accessory belt still the same engine noises. I went to check the timing and interestingly the two mark on the belt was 4 teeth to the right on the camshaft gear and 4 teeth to the right on the crankshaft gear. So here is my problem even if the belt jumped how is it exactly 4 teeth on both gears? If it jumped on both gears it wouldn't even change the timing. The two gears still the same position as before i think.

After watching so many youtube videos, looking in forums, guides and everything I can't find my camshaft timing mark on the engine.

I attached pictures that i took now, so the white line was on the mark when installed, and now it 4 away but i think it is still on time.

Any help much much much appreciated
 

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the lines on the belt are irrelevant after the engine has been started

It’s the marks on the pulleys that need to still be inline with the marks on the casting

Let’s see if I can find a decent photo of them
 
I would put the correct belt on eventually. Fiat changed to the wider more costly for a reason

I take it that if you remove the spark plugs and turn the engine over with a spanner it’s nice and free

If you take the spark plug from cylinder one off and start the engine for a few second the car will run fine on three cylinders then stop the engine and replace the lead

And continue to do the other cylinders in turn

Is there any difference regarding which spark lead is removed

Don’t run it too long with the plug disconnected

Is the knocking noise worse when the engine is cold
F3EDBD82-3810-45F7-9985-B19641A58E85.jpeg
 
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the lines on the belt are irrelevant after the engine has been started

It’s the marks on the pulleys that need to still be inline with the marks on the casting

Let’s see if I can find a decent photo of them
Hey! Thanks for the reply!
Instead of sleeping i just went for all teardown.

After i turn the engine again to the spots, so lower gear like in the black-white picture and the camgear is like 9'o clock. It looks exactly the same when i took down the original fiat belt. And it looks exactly like when i finished the new timing last month. So overall the timing not jumped just as you said the marking on the belt is only for the install.

After that i removed everything just to make sure if there is a fail on a belt or it chipped or maybe the tensioner was the problem, i even counted the teeth on the belt. Everything looked fine.

After this i reinstalled the belt, gears as i left and i tried to line up again the two line for the install and everything lined up.

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Photos of the timing mark 8v fire-

I already seen that as i said i looked every possible video i could find. Watch the valve cover top of my picture and the top of his it looks different.
And the cam has no cast sign as i can tell i watched it again.

(( Where can i download the black and white picture pdf :D ))

Looking again the black white picture, maybe my timing is really off because the bottom gear look just like the picture but the cam gear on my car look parallel to the ground level of asplat= so like 9 o clock. and on the picture it looks like 10:30 clock dont you think?


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Buying a normal timing kit (22mm) is my plan but it is costly to buy again a full set (i can't use the 15mm water pump which i bought so i need a full kit).

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I thought the ignition is wrong so I bought 4 new sparkplugs. But it still can be the leads or the ignition coils.

Next some hours i have after 3 days of work i will try to find if it's ignition wires maybe. Thanks for the idea.

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The noise is there on cold and on hot too almost the same volume. Maybe a little less when warm.

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Thinking about this, maybe seller scammed me and this panda has more than 60k and i have a starting bearing fail which will end up badly, or a simple hydraulic lifter sound or valve stem seal

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Thank you again for your reply. Much appreciated!!

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Video which i took when the acces belt was still off.



Engine small shakes every 2-3 seconds and the noise at 00:19 !!!!


 
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Could be just the frame rate of the video

But if I slow the video down to .5 speed

Just as you remove the mirror it looks like the camshafts pulley is wobbling but the engine block isn’t
 
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