Technical Fiat ducato 280

[Pastaman]

Like to ask anyone more know about my problem I am having with my fiat ducato 2,5td 280 1986.
Well , it started off with when engine hot after long drives I turn engine off and try to restart, nothing, new battery and battery full.
Have to wait till cooled off, so changed starter motor , seems to help but still having problems now and again.
Changed ignition switch.not original
Is there any suggestion???!!!
Or anything under bonnet getting to hot and can't work properly maybe.
Its realy annoying me as I am at the moment driving around italy and Sicily, really sucks.
Please help anyone.
Thank you so much.
Tony

 

[bugsymike]

Like to ask anyone more know about my problem I am having with my fiat ducato 2,5td 280 1986.
Well , it started off with when engine hot after long drives I turn engine off and try to restart, nothing, new battery and battery full.
Have to wait till cooled off, so changed starter motor , seems to help but still having problems now and again.
Changed ignition switch.not original
Is there any suggestion???!!!
Or anything under bonnet getting to hot and can't work properly maybe.
Its realy annoying me as I am at the moment driving around italy and Sicily, really sucks.
Please help anyone.
Thank you so much.
Tony

Can you safely wire up an auxiliary wire to the starter solenoid thin wire, then next time it doesn't start just dab the other end on the battery live and see if it turns over OK?
Don't leave it in gear.
If it works at least you have a get you home method until you locate the solution.

 

[Pastaman]

Can you safely wire up an auxiliary wire to the starter solenoid thin wire, then next time it doesn't start just dab the other end on the battery live and see if it turns over OK?
Don't leave it in gear.
If it works at least you have a get you home method until you locate the solution.

She is starting, but it only happens now not so often, as I am running engine to run everything in camper, cool box , charging mobile phones x 3.
I am running engine in stand position for some time.

 

[Pastaman]

She is starting, but it only happens now not so often, as I am running engine to run everything in camper, cool box , charging mobile phones x 3.
I am running engine in stand position for some time.

Is that + or - ?

 

[bugsymike]

Is that + or - ?

+ is the live side of the battery with - going to the chassis etc.
Don't leave a live wire loose, fix one end to the small terminal on the starter solenoid , so that when you dab it on the + positive side of the battery it should work the starter.
If you are not sure about this then do not do it!
From what you say I assume the engine doesn't cut out and it is only when you try to start thast the starter will not turn.
Are you running the battery down too much with it idling charging your phones and coolbox etc? As at idle charging rate is much lower than when driving along.

 

[Pastaman]

+ is the live side of the battery with - going to the chassis etc.
Don't leave a live wire loose, fix one end to the small terminal on the starter solenoid , so that when you dab it on the + positive side of the battery it should work the starter.
If you are not sure about this then do not do it!
From what you say I assume the engine doesn't cut out and it is only when you try to start thast the starter will not turn.
Are you running the battery down too much with it idling charging your phones and coolbox etc? As at idle charging rate is much lower than when driving along.

Think maybe box and mobile to much maybe, got it running at 15000rmin but driving is much better I think.

 

[Pastaman]

Think maybe box and mobile to much maybe, got it running at 15000rmin but driving is much better I think.

But when engine is cold she starts up ok.

 

[bugsymike]

But when engine is cold she starts up ok.

Test with the wire like I said, if you feel happy to do it.

 

[Pastaman]

Test with the wire like I said, if you feel happy to do it.

Ok

 

[Communicator]

Like to ask anyone more know about my problem I am having with my fiat ducato 2,5td 280 1986.
Well , it started off with when engine hot after long drives I turn engine off and try to restart, nothing, new battery and battery full.
Have to wait till cooled off, so changed starter motor , seems to help but still having problems now and again.
Changed ignition switch.not original
Is there any suggestion???!!!
Or anything under bonnet getting to hot and can't work properly maybe.
Its realy annoying me as I am at the moment driving around italy and Sicily, really sucks.
Please help anyone.
Thank you so much.
Tony

I owned a 1990 Talbot Express 2.5td from 1991 to 2006. I added an aftermarket alarm and an hidden switch in the starter solenoid circuit. After some years it exhibited the symptoms that you describe. Stop with hot engine and just a clunk from the starter solenoid when trying to start. Never any problem when starting from cold.

With the heavy link to the motor removed, I checked the starter solenoid supply voltage at various points, but nothing obvious was found. I concluded that despite the heat shield, the starter motor was getting too hot perhaps 100C, or more, and that a marginal operation was being pushed into failure when the solenoid was hot.

Some basic physics. Resistance is proportional to absolute temperature, and at constant voltage current is inversely proportional to resistance (Ohms Law). Magnetic field is proportional to current, but the solenoid pull is proportional to the square of the field, and hence the square of the current. So for example at 70% current you would only get 49% solenoid pull.

The fix. Add a starter solenoid relay. The relay was fitted close to the bonnet stay attachment, and this allowed cutting the solenoid wire further back so that the end leading to the solenoid could be connected to the relay terminal 87. The solenoid wire from the ignition switch was extended to the relay coil terminal 86. A new supply was taken from an unused 9.5mm blade on an adjacent 4 way connector. The relay coil terminal 85 was earthed at the relay mounting.

Result. No further starting problems.

 

[Pastaman]

I owned a 1990 Talbot Express 2.5td from 1991 to 2006. I added an aftermarket alarm and an hidden switch in the starter solenoid circuit. After some years it exhibited the symptoms that you describe. Stop with hot engine and just a clunk from the starter solenoid when trying to start. Never any problem when starting from cold.

With the heavy link to the motor removed, I checked the starter solenoid supply voltage at various points, but nothing obvious was found. I concluded that despite the heat shield, the starter motor was getting too hot perhaps 100C, or more, and that a marginal operation was being pushed into failure when the solenoid was hot.

Some basic physics. Resistance is proportional to absolute temperature, and at constant voltage current is inversely proportional to resistance (Ohms Law). Magnetic field is proportional to current, but the solenoid pull is proportional to the square of the field, and hence the square of the current. So for example at 70% current you would only get 49% solenoid pull.

The fix. Add a starter solenoid relay. The relay was fitted close to the bonnet stay attachment, and this allowed cutting the solenoid wire further back so that the end leading to the solenoid could be connected to the relay terminal 87. The solenoid wire from the ignition switch was extended to the relay coil terminal 86. A new supply was taken from an unused 9.5mm blade on an adjacent 4 way connector. The relay coil terminal 85 was earthed at the relay mounting.

Result. No further starting problems.

Omg, I did think of that ,but I thought it cant be.
Any chance of you doing a drawing sketch of where cables go and thickness of cables, would be great.
Thanks tony

 

[Communicator]

Omg, I did think of that ,but I thought it cant be.
Any chance of you doing a drawing sketch of where cables go and thickness of cables, would be great.
Thanks tony

May I be excused for the moment. I think that the photo and text should be a good start, and I have described where the wires came from. The critical part is the solenoid wire. (Other added wires are short lengths.) I think that there was already an inline blade connector near the glowplug unit. I remember that I made a slit in some green sleeving below the relay position, and pilled the wire back through it. The red sleeve just visible at the relay terminals was probably original. Have a good look around that area I am having to look back 19 or 20 years, and do not know whether the basic wiring would be the same. As to wire csa I think that 1.5sq mm was used to match the original.