Technical Fiat Ducato 2.3 driveshaft question(s)?

[Mattfender]

Hi all, long time lurker but the time has come where I could do with some help (the Mrs tells me everyday but that’s different)

As the title we have a 2.3 120hp 2009 Ducato, when we purchased it I changed EVERY engine and gearbox mounts to try and put an end to horrible reverse shudder and also engine rock. This worked well, I also changed both front drive shafts as I had a distinctive “clunk” when the clutch hit the biting point. New drive shafts from ECP (please don’t throw things at me) cured this too.

This was a year ago and since I have changed the driveshafts probably 3 times and the rear gearbox mounts once.

The latest driveshafts fitted a month or so ago were “fast line” brand from coastal motor homes, who assured me that despite my van weighing 3300kg all the time (camper conversion) these would be fine.

The clunking is back again and there seems to be in and out play on the driver side shaft and some free play on the passenger side shaft bearing.

My question is, how can I get some original fiat driveshafts? I am in Cornwall. I have the job down to 15/20 minutes but would rather not do them again for at least 6 months lol

Also does anybody know if there should be a “snap ring” on the box end of the shaft upon fitting? I’ve never been given a new one with any new driveshaft and the ones I took out didn’t appear to have any as they slid out easily? The E-manual I have states nothing regarding them?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Anthony489]

Hi MattFender

Ducato vans have a number of design "quirks", and juddering in reverse is one of them. The more weight you carry, and the steeper the incline, the worse it can be. Fine when backing up in a level loading bay, but try reversing up a steep hill to get into a passing place on a narrow road and it can be a bit of a drama. I think the problem is partly because reverse gear ratio is higher than first gear, and partly the design of the engine mounts and their behaviour when the torque is applied the opposite way round when reversing.

I am astonished that you have replaced drive shafts so often, they ought to last for ages and even if slight wear occurs in the joints it's hard to see how this could get so bad as to cause judder. I suspect the problem lies elsewhere in the gearbox and final drive, e.g a worn support bearing.

 

[Mattfender]

Well aware of the good ol judder, mine would probably do 40mph in reverse ?

After I first changed the engine mounts and then got off the clutch as quickly as possible when reversing it’s been fine since ?

It’s not the judder I’m trying to cure it’s a distinctive clunk when pulling away (usually occurs on bite point, lately I’ll get a few little pops when accelerating which leads to believe driveshafts.

I got the wife to video the rear gearbox mount when rocking on the bite point and am convinced it’s shot AGAIN. I have a new one but noticed the bolt hole on the mount Which goes through subframe is nearly 10mm wider than the bolt, so tomorrow I’m going to make up a sleeve as this may help the mount last longer.

Regards the driveshafts, even the chap at ECP said they are utter s***e and the fiat ones last circa 90k miles. So I’ll be saving up and shelling out.

Will try and get the video uploading and shared here, but I’m still at a loss as to wether there should be a snap Ring on the end of the driveshaft (gearbox end)??????

 

[oigle]

Well aware of the good ol judder, mine would probably do 40mph in reverse ��

After I first changed the engine mounts and then got off the clutch as quickly as possible when reversing it’s been fine since ��

It’s not the judder I’m trying to cure it’s a distinctive clunk when pulling away (usually occurs on bite point, lately I’ll get a few little pops when accelerating which leads to believe driveshafts.

I got the wife to video the rear gearbox mount when rocking on the bite point and am convinced it’s shot AGAIN. I have a new one but noticed the bolt hole on the mount Which goes through subframe is nearly 10mm wider than the bolt, so tomorrow I’m going to make up a sleeve as this may help the mount last longer.

Regards the driveshafts, even the chap at ECP said they are utter s***e and the fiat ones last circa 90k miles. So I’ll be saving up and shelling out.

Will try and get the video uploading and shared here, but I’m still at a loss as to wether there should be a snap Ring on the end of the driveshaft (gearbox end)??????

I would suggest that the larger hole is to allow the engine to be properly aligned when tightening the bolt. It needs to be correct as uni joints will only bend in one direction at a time.

 

[Mattfender]

I would suggest that the larger hole is to allow the engine to be properly aligned when tightening the bolt. It needs to be correct as uni joints will only bend in one direction at a time.

Cheers for explaining that I did think it may have been for alignment adjustment. I will check all the alignment again when I fit the new lower gearbox mount

 

[corcai]

Was yours built on the lightweight chassis and upplated I wonder. Or has it been remapped. Modern ecu maps have torque limiters to protect drive train.


Either way a lot of aftermarket parts now are reboxing operations you have no idea what you're getting. I bought last ducato driveshaft direct from Skf UK only 30% more expensive than some Shaftec / blueprint etc junk.

I would try skf, citroen and Peugeot for prices usually way cheaper than fiat.

 

[Mattfender]

Thanks corcai I will bear that in mind!

Happy to announce after replacing the lower rear gearbox mount (doughnut type) the clunk has gone when pulling away. The removed mount has torn...I’ll be replacing the passenger side shaft with a new one soon as the inner boot has a hole in it. Hopefully I can sling a new boot on and some fresh grease and I’ll have a spare ?

As far as alignment goes, I found the driveshafts “looked” straightest if I pushed the gearbox away from the mount (towards the front of the van) and then tightened up the bolts. Driving like silk again now so a happy chappy

 

[Mattfender]

I spoke too soon!

Somethings banging around under the floor, although this time somethings different.....

If I pull away very very slowly and get off the clutch as carefully as I can there is no noise.

Pulling away from traffic lights is a pronounced knock/clunk, hard to diagnose where it’s coming from sometimes feels/sounds driver side other times it’s passenger side.

Even better IT IS NOW JUDDERING! And last night managed to get a bit of clutch slip going up a hill, although I’m leaning towards dragging release bearing (might explain the noise too!)

looking into a refurb box for around 1k and a clutch kit now as all mounts feel tight and do not move excessively.

I’m about to hit 100k miles, 20k of which I’ve done.

Going to start a new post with some more questions!