General Fiat Ducato 14 The 5:th gear suddenly keeps slipping

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General Fiat Ducato 14 The 5:th gear suddenly keeps slipping

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Hi I have a Fiat Ducato 14, Hymercamp 56 from1989 . The 5:th gear suddenly keeps slipping into neutral. 135000 km. Does anyone recognize the problem?
I am Australian on my mothers side but Swedish Father so the question is from the other side of the globe!
Thanks for any suggestion.
Best/ Christopher
 
Hi I have a Fiat Ducato 14, Hymercamp 56 from1989 . The 5:th gear suddenly keeps slipping into neutral. 135000 km. Does anyone recognize the problem?
I am Australian on my mothers side but Swedish Father so the question is from the other side of the globe!
Thanks for any suggestion.
Best/ Christopher
Hi Christopher,this has happened to me before.It was diagnosed as a fifth gear failure and a new fifth gear was needed.In my case I was informed that the gearbox would need to be removed to fit the new gear but I have since found out that this is not necessary and the gear can be fitted without removal of the gearbox.If you know of a gearbox repairer near to you it would be advisable to have them look at it.
It is not a cheap exercise .Hope this helps.
 
Hi

Around that era the 5th gear was an 'addition'...an extra

4speed +1

It had oil supply issues..etc


Try the forums excellent Sesrch for more info :)


Possibly JUST clutch slip.. ?
or actually throwing the gear change lever to the Centre..??
I think that the 4+1 arrangement applied up to the introduction of a six speed box with the x250 model in mid 2006.
The lubrication problem was due to the fifth gear compartment relying on splash lubrication from the main box. OK if vehicle is in frequent use, but not if a MH is stationary for several days or longer. With my 2006 x244, I try to follow the advice of not using fifth gear for the first mile or two.
 
I actually changed a 5th gear assembly on a Fiat many years ago not a difficult job couple of hours if I remember correctly just hard to find the parts.
 
In case anyone wonders: what happens is that the synchromesh of the fifth gear wears for some reason, possibly insufficient lubrication, other people say that it happens if you use the fifth gear at 70km/h or below for too long. The little synchromesh teeths are grinded down more and more as km go by. I had the same symptoms (fifth gear disengaging at high load) and changed my fifth gear myself. It was clearly seen on the synchromesh teeth that they had formed an angle at the contact surface that will push the hub upwards so that the gear disengages. Later versions of the gearbox have slightly different grooves in the rods that hold the forks. These grooves are what keep the forks in engaged position. This modification was called "floating" something (dont remember the exact name right now) and it is better at keeping the gears engaged. As a result the synchromesh doesn't form this sort of angled surface even if it wears and it will last longer (until the teeths wear down completely and start breaking off I suppose). The newer revision also have slightly different synchromesh hubs. The hub for the fifth gear has an extra groove that puts additional pressure on the fifth gear downwards when engaged, holding it in place. All these modifications obviously aim at eliminating the tendency of the fifth gear to wear out and disengage.

If you want to change the fifth gear on a -89 gearbox you will need a 43/33 gear kit (43 teeth and 33 teeth on the wheels respectively). You actually only need to replace the 33 wheel and the hub, but a new 43 wheel is also included in the kit. These 43/33 kits are hard to find nowadays. There is a 45/33 fifth gear kit more available which is for a later gearbox model and has the newer hub. I fitted one of the 45/33 gears in my -89 gearbox and got a slightly higher fifth gear ratio. However I think there is a 2mm difference in height for the 33 wheel in this kit, which is bad because the position of the hub also becomes slightly out of place. For me it worked anyway for five years and 50000km but this summer if finally failed and I think it was due to this 2mm offset. It seemed to have allowed one of the 5mm steel balls to eventually pop out underneeth the synchro hub when the reverse was engaged, causing a complete lockup of the gearbox selection mechanism. That box is currently on my workshop bench and I'm looking into how to solve this with some sort of spacer. If anyone has done this and or has some other experience to share I'd be interested.
 
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In case anyone wonders: what happens is that the synchromesh of the fifth gear wears for some reason, possibly insufficient lubrication, other people say that it happens if you use the fifth gear at 70km/h or below for too long. The little synchromesh teeths are grinded down more and more as km go by. I had the same symptoms (fifth gear disengaging at high load) and changed my fifth gear myself. It was clearly seen on the synchromesh teeth that they had formed an angle at the contact surface that will push the hub upwards so that the gear disengages. Later versions of the gearbox have slightly different grooves in the rods that hold the forks. These grooves are what keep the forks in engaged position. This modification was called "floating" something (dont remember the exact name right now) and it is better at keeping the gears engaged. As a result the synchromesh doesn't form this sort of angled surface even if it wears and it will last longer (until the teeths wear down completely and start breaking off I suppose). The newer revision also have slightly different synchromesh hubs. The hub for the fifth gear has an extra groove that puts additional pressure on the fifth gear downwards when engaged, holding it in place. All these modifications obviously aim at eliminating the tendency of the fifth gear to wear out and disengage.

If you want to change the fifth gear on a -89 gearbox you will need a 43/33 gear kit (43 teeth and 33 teeth on the wheels respectively). You actually only need to replace the 33 wheel and the hub, but a new 43 wheel is also included in the kit. These 43/33 kits are hard to find nowadays. There is a 45/33 fifth gear kit more available which is for a later gearbox model and has the newer hub. I fitted one of the 45/33 gears in my -89 gearbox and got a slightly higher fifth gear ratio. However I think there is a 2mm difference in height for the 33 wheel in this kit, which is bad because the position of the hub also becomes slightly out of place. For me it worked anyway for five years and 50000km but this summer if finally failed and I think it was due to this 2mm offset. It seemed to have allowed one of the 5mm steel balls to eventually pop out underneeth the synchro hub when the reverse was engaged, causing a complete lockup of the gearbox selection mechanism. That box is currently on my workshop bench and I'm looking into how to solve this with some sort of spacer. If anyone has done this and or has some other experience to share I'd be interested.
Just in case anyone reads the above: the differene is 1.5mm and not 2mm as I wrote above. A 1.5mm washer is included in the 45/33 fifth gear kits, so they should work. I have used a kit called 9567494580 to fix two gearboxes now and they have worked fine. They include the washer and the hub. Another kit numbered 95654006 exists which I think is identical.
 
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