General Fastest 127 in the world

[johan_larsson]

Hello.

I'm a big fan of Fiat 127. And i'm wondering if anyone knows about someone who has tuned one of those heavily. I'd really like some info and maybe get in touch with the tuner. The reason is that i'm gonna build what i think will be the fastest 127 in the world.

Johan Larsson

 

[Biz]

Brasil is probably one of the best places to try

They love them over there!

 

[fiatfactory]

It certainly wouldn't be with a 903/1050 engine, nor would it be with a 1300 brazilian engine .... I'm sure someone has transplanted an uno turbo sohc engine into a 127, plenty of people have been able to tune these for 200hp (+), and in a 700kg 127 that would be a road rocket for sure.... and probably the most economical way to do it too...

The 903/1050 is far too old in its design, and unless you spent some big $$ on a cylinder head, you would be limited to maybe 75hp.

I think the F.I.R.E engine (1108/1242) is sort of a redesigned OHV engine, with 5 main bearings and OHC, I believe it uses the same bellhousing pattern as the old OHV903, and there are some people that can tune these quite extensively if you want to stay naturally aspirated.

Or I have personally driven a 127 series 1 fitted with the running gear from a 128sl 1300, and that was pretty quick for an almost stock engine / transmission combination (about 80hp) and retained the crisp handling as theres only a moderate increase in the weight over the front wheels.

SteveC

 

[johan_larsson]

Hi

Ok, i ment that mine would be the fastest with the old 903/1050 engine design. Recently i bought a homemade fuel injection kit that fits to the cylinder head and a IHI turbocharger. I'm going to fit it on a 1050 abarth engine and with some other modifications to i think it will produce pretty much power. My goal is at least 127 hp and i guess that the tourqe will be prety high with the turbocharger fitted. Then some modifications to the suspension and some stiffening of the chassis and it will be a rocket even on a track.

Nice to talk to people who love Fiat as much as i do!!

Johan

 

[fiatfactory]

I think you being a little optimistic.

For a start any of the 67.2mm bore engines (965 / 1050 OHV) will have a head gasket sealing problem at boost, there is very little "meat" between the bores.

The 66mm bore engines would be a better starting point for a boosted engine IMO, and besides when your forcing the air in, max engine capacity is definitely secondary to max boost.

Next you have the problem of only three main bearings, and a cast crank that will have a tendency to flex ... especially when it's expected to make 2.5 times the HP it was intended to....

But if your still set on the idea, consider the smaller bore engine, coupled with the longer stroke crank, and the 1050 conrods (which are much stronger and lighter) ...

Then your going to try and push all that thru a clutch / gearbox that was designed for 50ish hp ...this will be the achilles heel... IMO

SteveC

 

[johan_larsson]

Hi.

Maybe i am a little optimistic. But i want to give it a try, so i am thankful for any help and ideas.

I think the clutch and gearbox will hold but i talked to the builder af the injection kit, who had that and the turbocharger installed on a a112 abarth, and he said that his main problem was the driving axels.

And now that i have the injection kit and the turbo so why not build something with it, maybe it will work, maybe not, one thing is sure, it's a lot of work and a lot of fun!

Johan

 

[The Sultan]

the easiest transplant for a 127 whould be the lancia y10 turbo engine as this is based on the brazilian 1050/1300cc engine used in the 127 1050 and 1300 gt
it whould fit on standerd mountings and gear box

 

[ROB MILLER]

Don`t know where the FIATFACTORY got his info from, but there are a few errors...unless of course Fiat sent different "Brazil" engines down under.

The 1050 Sport engine developed 70bhp from the factory and was redlined at 7200 rpm. The Italians got 120bhp plus from this little screamer. The stroked version which was marketed in the UK as the 1300gt developed 75bhp as standard.

Both these engines had a very strong 5 (FIVE) main bearing crank

The gearbox, particularly the 4 speeder could take much more power, In fact with LSD was putting 9obhp to the wheels in competion form

The bore size was 76mm

To compare this engine to the 128 and fire types for strength...look at the big end and mains sizes, the Brazil was stronger.

Granted the Breathing was not as efficient on paper, but with twin downdrafts was not far off for it all being on one side.

ROCK ON THE 127!!!!!!

 

[antsuno2]

my old 127 1300 gt( on the log book) 83(A) i'm sure i thought it was the fastest, it used to sing, what a car! ive now got its brother the uno turbo

 

[fiatfactory]

Don`t know where the FIATFACTORY got his info from, but there are a few errors...unless of course Fiat sent different "Brazil" engines down under.

The 1050 Sport engine developed 70bhp from the factory and was redlined at 7200 rpm. The Italians got 120bhp plus from this little screamer. The stroked version which was marketed in the UK as the 1300gt developed 75bhp as standard.

Both these engines had a very strong 5 (FIVE) main bearing crank

The bore size was 76mm

We are talking about two different types of engines.... so there's no errors in what I wrote ... you simply misunderstood the questions being asked.

I'm refering to the 817/843/903/965/1036cc family of OHV engines .... your talking about the 1049/1301 "Brazilian" family of OHC engines

Bore stroke of the 1036cc (commonly called a 1050 70hp when found in an A112 Autobianchi Abarth) is 67.2 x 74mm .. it's OHV, camshaft in block, valves actuated by pushrods and rockers ... uses a 32dmtr carb and makes 70hp ... all of this engine family use a three main bearing crank.

The 1049cc Brazilian engine has a bore / stroke of 76.0 / 57.8mm... comes as both a std and sport version ... makes 70hp in sport form ... is a toothed belt driven OHC... these engines use a five main bearing crank

The 1301cc Brazilian engine has a bore / stroke of 76.1 / 71.5mm is OHC (cam in the cylinder head) ...uses a 34dmtr carb and produces 75hp

Johan, the guy who started this thread and asked the question, specifically said the 903/1050 family meaning the OHV engines, not the OHC.

OHV engines in various small abarth models made up near 100hp/litre as naturally aspirated engines ... Johan is talking about using forced induction on one of these engines to get 127hp in a 127 chassis.

SteveC

 

[YX75]

I have a 1049cc turbo Y10. I know the Y10 is a Lancia but lets be honest its more Fiat Panda than Lancia. I was running big jets with an IHI Uno turbo charger with slightly increased boost which when on song was very quick however I could never get it to run properly. It always had flat spots due to running rich mid throttle and no matter how many times I set up the idle it would always be out of tune within a week. The sweet spot was always full throttle however it isnt possible to go everywhere at full throttle without attracting a bit too much of the wrong attention.

I have turned to developing a MPI for it using the 1301cc Y10 Gtie inlet manifold. On the ecu side I am going for a mega squirt for its cheapness and the fact you can set it up at home with no expensive trips to the rolling road.
I thought about going for a FIRE turbo set up as has been done in many cinqs and pandas etc but although the FIRE is a great engine (very light for a cast iron block) the block just does not have the meat of the 1049cc. I think about 12kg less meat actually, plus it isnt really going to cost much to do because the 1049cc already runs a very low compression ratio 7:1. Ecu is only £265.

Surely an injected, forced induction 1049cc would be a great engine for a 127, drivable and powerful. 140bhp plus should be obtainable without too much bother. I have heard of people running 1049cc turbo Y10's with 160bhp plus on the carb!

 

[YX75]

I have a 1049cc turbo Y10. I know the Y10 is a Lancia but lets be honest its more Fiat Panda than Lancia. I was running big jets with an IHI Uno turbo charger with slightly increased boost which when on song was very quick however I could never get it to run properly. It always had flat spots due to running rich mid throttle and no matter how many times I set up the idle it would always be out of tune within a week. The sweet spot was always full throttle however it isnt possible to go everywhere at full throttle without attracting a bit too much of the wrong attention.

I have turned to developing a MPI for it using the 1301cc Y10 Gtie inlet manifold. On the ecu side I am going for a mega squirt for its cheapness and the fact you can set it up at home with no expensive trips to the rolling road.
I thought about going for a FIRE turbo set up as has been done in many cinqs and pandas but although the FIRE is a great engine the block just does not have the meat of the 1049cc, plus it isnt really going to cost much to do because the 1049cc already runs a very low compression ratio 7:1. Ecu is only £265.

Surely an injected, forced induction 1049cc would be a great engine for a 127, drivable and powerful. 140bhp plus should be obtainable without too much bother. I have heard of people running 1049cc turbo Y10's with 160bhp plus on the carb!