Technical Engine swap with carb

[Hharbers]

There are plenty of topics about possible engine swap for my 1987 4x4 with stock 1000cc 50hp engine.

One of the useable engines 60hp 1.2 8v spi engine 176b4000 of s Punto 1 as this engine has its torque on low revs and suits off road driving.

On an Italian forum is a tutorial how to including installation ecu and spi of donor car. In topic is briefly mentioned it is possible to keep the original carburateur instead spi but no additional information how.

I can buy a cheap low milage 176b4000 engine but it is without any electrical wiring and parts.

So I try to figure out if i can do it and keep my carb.

What needs to be done to swap carb to new engine?
Needs rejetting?
Loss of power compared to the spi ?

 

[Dragon Man]

you would have to make a carburettor adaptor plate. the engine intake manifold bolt pattern on any FIRE over 1108cc are different. anything above 1108cc has a engine block height 2cm taller too.
you would also have to use an electronic fuel pump as the 1242cc engine does not have the cut out for the mechanical fuel pump the 999cc engine uses.

i swapped an engine in my older panda. i used a punto 75 engine. if you did want to go SPI the wiring is not all that difficult as you can use most of the pandas original wiring loom for the oil pressure, temp, alternator, and starter. you can leave the puntos engine wiring loom all connected to the engine when you install it, then just unplug the puntos connector and use the pandas connector on the individual components. i ended up removing the unnesisary wires from the puntos wiring loom, but you can leave them in if you wish. you will have to swap the oil pressure sensor around as the plug is different, or just cut the puntos wire and put a spade connector on it which is what the panda uses same for the temp sensor. its all easy stuff.
the wire for the fuel pump is a brown with white stripe. you will need a standard in line 3 to 5 BAR fuel pump. you can use the pandas original fuel lines. you can get them off ebay. the fuel rail adjusts the pressure automatically so the fuel pump pressure is not all that important so long as its over 3 bar.

the only thing i struggled with was the "CODE" box wiring to the ECU. however that is simple. a green wire from the ECU pin 26 or 27 if i remember right goes to the only green wire on the CODE box. any wire that is Orange needs to be connected to an ignition live, and any wire that is Red needs to be connected to a battery live. Fiats have very nice wiring colours.. none of this number code system french vehicles love to use (even though for someone like me it does make life more easy)

you would also need to drill out a hole and weld in a thread into the exhaust pipe somewhere for the Lambda sensor. i did it on mine just where the 2 exhaust pipes come to 1 at the back of the engine. due to the extra 2cm height of the block, you may also need to cut and extend the exhaust down pipe by 2cm. you would have to do this if you are running SPI or a carb. alternatively if you have a 2cm thick steel plate, you could make a spacer that goes in where the exhaust manifold meets the down pipe. you would have to remove the 3 studs and replace them with bolts the right length.

the physical engine swap is fine.. all the bolts match up to the original gearbox as does the 1242cc clutch to the gearbox. its like it was made to be done.

 

[Hharbers]

Dragonmann Thanks !

As engine for sale has no ecu and wiring included if i want to use it as is I need to source electronics it at scrap yard. As punto 1 are almost impossible to find anymore it would be very hard.

Thats why I thought about keeping carb.
Inline fuel pump is no problem i think.

Does a 1242 have the hole for the distributior? Or does it needs als a different ignition?

 

[Dragon Man]

Dragonmann Thanks !

As engine for sale has no ecu and wiring included if i want to use it as is I need to source electronics it at scrap yard. As punto 1 are almost impossible to find anymore it would be very hard.

Thats why I thought about keeping carb.
Inline fuel pump is no problem i think.

Does a 1242 have the hole for the distributior? Or does it needs als a different ignition?

yes it does! it is underneath the plate that the 2x ignition coils bolt on to. if you remove the plate, the distributor should bolt right in.
i think the cam shaft will also take a distributor too. however i am not sure.
if the engine is a late punto 60 spi engine it may have the cam shaft used in the punto 75 engine. i think it is called an "899" camshaft. it will be marked on the camshaft somewhere if it is.

 

[Hharbers]

What is benefit of the later 75 cam ?
More power?

If i install carb it needs rejetting I assume.
How do i know what jet to install ?
Is it done with co meter?

 

[firstcar-Y10]

if the engine is a late punto 60 spi engine it may have the cam shaft used in the punto 75 engine. i think it is called an "899" camshaft. it will be marked on the camshaft somewhere if it is.

866Think you were reading yours upside down?

 

[Dragon Man]

866Think you were reading yours upside down?

getting mixed up with the cinquecento OHV engine size i think 899cc the older carbed ones are 903cc

 

[Dragon Man]

What is benefit of the later 75 cam ?
More power?

If i install carb it needs rejetting I assume.
How do i know what jet to install ?
Is it done with co meter?

the 866 punto 75 cam shaft has better power than a standard 1.2 punto 60 cam. though i think the panda 4x4 cam is not far off the 866 cam. i think its something to do with how far it opens the valves and how fast it does it. someone on here i think made a comparison with the different cam shafts if i remember right

a CO meter would be the best way. yes i would guess at a slightly larger jet. it is something i have never done on a car, and for bikes i just buy a complete larger carb haha.
so i have been told that theres a larger version of the 32mm webber carb the panda fire engines use. i think its a 36mm webber carb that was used on a vauxhall/opal Omega. this is what i read years ago.. i dont know if it is true.
i would love to see a fire engine on 4 carbs. i bet that would be quite fun.

 

[Hharbers]

I read onlin also about weber 36mm carb of car like Peugeot 205 would be a match. Only some parts of the 32mm Weber need to be reused to be able to use stock throttle and chocke cables.

Keeping kind of stock wiring and carb setup would save a lot of work!

Would i notice loss in power when using carb instead of spi?


What about electric fuel pump:

My current mechanical driven fuell pump has a return line. 1242 engine has no fuell pump so need to install electric pump
How does this work with an inline electric fuel pump ? These dont have a return line?
Any link to usable pump as an example

(Side question, i thought a Panda had a also fuell pump in the tank?)